Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

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Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

Owen Leonard-4
Has anyone else received spam from "BestBookBuddies   - an Initiative
of: OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd." ? They recently spammed me and
everyone else on my library's contact page.

If it were up to me they would be removed from the list of paid
support providers, but I don't think the rules explicitly forbid
sending spam.

 -- Owen

--
Web Developer
Athens County Public Libraries
http://www.myacpl.org
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Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

vinod mishra
I think delist would be good decision




With Regards,

Vinod Kumar Mishra,
Assistant Librarian,
Biju Patnaik Central Library (BPCL),
NIT Rourkela,
Sundergadh-769008,
Odisha,
India.
Mob:91+9439420860
Website: http://mishravk.com/
ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-4666-7874

*"Spiritual relationship is far more precious than physical. Physical
relationship divorced from spiritual is body without soul" -- Mahatma
Gandhi*

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Owen Leonard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Has anyone else received spam from "BestBookBuddies   - an Initiative
> of: OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd." ? They recently spammed me and
> everyone else on my library's contact page.
>
> If it were up to me they would be removed from the list of paid
> support providers, but I don't think the rules explicitly forbid
> sending spam.
>
>  -- Owen
>
> --
> Web Developer
> Athens County Public Libraries
> http://www.myacpl.org
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
[hidden email]
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
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Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

Jonathan Druart
In reply to this post by Owen Leonard-4
I have sent them several emails and they never answered. They are already
on my list of companies to remove from the list.

Cheers,
Jonathan

On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 at 08:56 Owen Leonard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Has anyone else received spam from "BestBookBuddies   - an Initiative
> of: OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd." ? They recently spammed me and
> everyone else on my library's contact page.
>
> If it were up to me they would be removed from the list of paid
> support providers, but I don't think the rules explicitly forbid
> sending spam.
>
>  -- Owen
>
> --
> Web Developer
> Athens County Public Libraries
> http://www.myacpl.org
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
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Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

BWS Johnson-2
Kia ora,
>
I have sent them several emails and they never answered. They are already
on my list of companies to remove from the list.

Cheers,
Jonathan

>

On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 at 08:56 Owen Leonard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Has anyone else received spam from "BestBookBuddies   - an Initiative
> of: OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd." ? They recently spammed me and
> everyone else on my library's contact page.
>
> If it were up to me they would be removed from the list of paid
> support providers, but I don't think the rules explicitly forbid
> sending spam.
>
>  -- Owen
>



    It seems like an easy listserv or meeting vote to add a no spam rule.

Cheers,
Brooke
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Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate
In reply to this post by Jonathan Druart
Dear Jonathan Druart,

I am rather surprised to note this mail.

The only mail that I see from you to me was as below :

=================================================
Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]>
May 17
to koha
Dear Sudhir Gandotra,

You are receiving this email because you are listed as a paid support
company on the Koha community website (https://koha-community.org/su
pport/paid-support).

We are updating the list of paid support companies for Koha on our
community website. Please, after reading this email, either hit reply or
complete the form mentioned below to confirm you are still an active
support company.

The next development cycle of Koha (17.11) is going to start before the
month of May is out.
Over the next 6 months we will be building the latest, even more awesome,
release of Koha.  We strongly believe that having everybody involved is
fundamental to achieving this.

We want to build a task force and for that, we need to know who can commit
time and effort that we can count on, in order to estimate the goals we can
reach.
Even if you have never been involved in the Koha community but are using
Koha, you can help us by committing just a few hours each month:
library workers or support companies can contribute massively by providing
feedback, testing patches, contributing to the documentation or by getting
involved in other specific tasks. Even if you do not know how to code you
can help shape the next release and improve Koha.
If you want to help, or if you have specific requests for this release,
please let us know by completing this form:

    > https://framaforms.org/ready-to-help-the-koha-community-1493918217 <

Just a couple of hours per month dedicated to the project is a huge help!

Best regards,
Jonathan Druart on behalf of the Koha community

=================================================

I have not replied to it, as I am usually been travelling extensively for
the last 12 months, but, within our team, we are discussing as to how we
can take this forward and start contributing to the Koha community in
future, starting in next few months.

*On the other hand, I would like to share the following with you :*

As duly acknowledged by the Koha community here, we are the entity (then
known as Indserve Infotech Pvt. Ltd.) that introduced Koha in India with
the first commercially done Koha implementation at Delhi Pubic Library, in
2007-08, for which I can show you the formal purchase order also.
Its another story that our trainee-engineer, who was trained by us on this
project, left us, cheated us, took away the clients we were negotiating and
harmed our work seriously, went to another company and is active on Koha
even now.
We were forced to lie low for a while (due to illegal actions of a large
MNC against us) and restarted our activities in a big way again in 2010,
and after creating over 165 clients across 15 countries, have now taken
Koha to new level, whereby we are offering the complete services free of
cost and this is taking us places.

The amount of publicity, growth and expansion that we have done with Koha
is tremendous when you see the number of clients, the spread of these
clients, and their support to us because of un-breaking services.

I am aware that people like Vinod Mishra and some others are quiet jealous
of us and now with these free services, they are, possibly, afraid of
losing their business. And, because of this, they find all kinds of excuses
of speaking against us with clients and here also on the list.

I see no reason for deleting our name, because, caused by such negative
people, it will only give bad name to the whole of community, a cause to
which we have given our full support form the very beginning. And,
moreover, we have done nothing against Koha. Rather, with the number of
libraries to our credit, we are among the biggest providers of Koha
services.

To promote our services, we do send mails to libraries and in that process,
the mail went to mycpl.org also. Owen Leonard felt bad about it, wrote to
me, and I replied to him with my apologies, as our intentions have solely
been to promote Koha. However, there is no law or convention that says that
a Koha service provider cannot send promotional mails to libraries. Please
help me understand this point better, if I am missing something.

I will not speak against any of them, as, that is neither my style, nor am
I person driven by fears.

Being a Humanist, I am aware that I need to contribute to the good of this
world, that has given me my life and everything else that I have and I am
very happy contributing to Linux and Koha in my own way.
*I have not done much, with my more than 400 Libraries to my credit, I
wonder if this is negligible.*

And, for that "crime" (if that's how these people will prefer to term it),
as its being labelled by some ignorant ones, if you think Koha community
will be happier without me on the list, let's set the new standards.

I am quiet aware that Koha is a community thing and fortunately not a
personal property of anyone, and due to that fact alone, it is important,
that, as a Community, we set the highest standards, which are not driven by
the fears of a few ignorant ones, but by the bold-selfless actions of those
who do for the society.

I look forward to hearing from you on this.

I assure you that, very soon, you will find me increasingly active on the
list.

By the way, my request of adding my new company "Best Book Buddies" to the
list of service providers is pending for around a year.

Sudhir Gandotra
www.bestbookbuddies.com
+91-9810120918

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Jonathan Druart <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have sent them several emails and they never answered. They are already
> on my list of companies to remove from the list.
>
> Cheers,
> Jonathan
>
> On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 at 08:56 Owen Leonard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Has anyone else received spam from "BestBookBuddies   - an Initiative
> > of: OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd." ? They recently spammed me and
> > everyone else on my library's contact page.
> >
> > If it were up to me they would be removed from the list of paid
> > support providers, but I don't think the rules explicitly forbid
> > sending spam.
> >
> >  -- Owen
> >
> > --
> > Web Developer
> > Athens County Public Libraries
> > http://www.myacpl.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>



--
*Kind Regards** with Season's Greetings,*
*Sudhir Gandotra  |*
*  C. E. O.*
*OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd.,*
*Regd. Office : F-34/5, Okhla Indl Area, Phase-II, **New Delhi - 110020,
INDIA*
*Websites:www.openlx.com <http://www.openlx.com/>* | *E-Mail: [hidden email]
<[hidden email]>  |  <http://goog_1154387719>**www.kalculate.com*
<http://www.kalculate.com>
* <http://openlx.com/>  * <http://koha.openlx.com/>    [image:
http://openlx.com/dspace.html] <http://openlx.com/dspace.html>
*Office:  +91-11-2638-5034,  **+91-11-2638-5035* |
*Mobile: +91-98101-20918*
*Kalculate Datasheet
<http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/kalculate_brochure.pdf> | Kalculate
Introduction
<http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/kalculate_introduction.pdf> | OpenLX
Profile <http://openlx.com/downloads/openlx_technologies_profile.pdf> |
OpenLX for Government
<http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/openlx_for_government.pdf>
Newsletter_Jan-16 <http://www.kalculate.com/newsletter_jan16.pdf>*
*Linux Download
<http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/download-linux.html> | Careers
<http://openlx.com/careers.html> | Training
<http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/training.html> | Enquiry
<http://openlx.com/enq/>** | Clients
<http://www.openlx.com/client_list.png>** | OpenLX on FB
<https://www.facebook.com/openlxlinux> | LinkedIN
<http://www.linkedin.com/company/2938809>*
* | Kalculate on FB <https://www.facebook.com/businessdesktop>*

*Koha Online Demo <http://koha.openlx.com>  |  DSpace Online Demo
<http://dspace.openlx.com:8080/jspui>*
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
[hidden email]
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
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Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

Chris Cormack-7
Just a quick note, unsolicited emails, or spam as it is commonly known is indeed a crime in some jurisdictions. And in almost every one it is against convention.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of your email which reads as a personal fight between you and other Indian Koha developers/companies. Please leave this kind of email off the list in future.

And if you plan to continue to send unsolicited emails to people then I think the request to remove the listing should stand

Chris

On 9 August 2017 5:58:37 AM NZST, "Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Dear Jonathan Druart,
>
>I am rather surprised to note this mail.
>
>The only mail that I see from you to me was as below :
>
>=================================================
>Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]>
>May 17
>to koha
>Dear Sudhir Gandotra,
>
>You are receiving this email because you are listed as a paid support
>company on the Koha community website (https://koha-community.org/su
>pport/paid-support).
>
>We are updating the list of paid support companies for Koha on our
>community website. Please, after reading this email, either hit reply
>or
>complete the form mentioned below to confirm you are still an active
>support company.
>
>The next development cycle of Koha (17.11) is going to start before the
>month of May is out.
>Over the next 6 months we will be building the latest, even more
>awesome,
>release of Koha.  We strongly believe that having everybody involved is
>fundamental to achieving this.
>
>We want to build a task force and for that, we need to know who can
>commit
>time and effort that we can count on, in order to estimate the goals we
>can
>reach.
>Even if you have never been involved in the Koha community but are
>using
>Koha, you can help us by committing just a few hours each month:
>library workers or support companies can contribute massively by
>providing
>feedback, testing patches, contributing to the documentation or by
>getting
>involved in other specific tasks. Even if you do not know how to code
>you
>can help shape the next release and improve Koha.
>If you want to help, or if you have specific requests for this release,
>please let us know by completing this form:
>
> > https://framaforms.org/ready-to-help-the-koha-community-1493918217 <
>
>Just a couple of hours per month dedicated to the project is a huge
>help!
>
>Best regards,
>Jonathan Druart on behalf of the Koha community
>
>=================================================
>
>I have not replied to it, as I am usually been travelling extensively
>for
>the last 12 months, but, within our team, we are discussing as to how
>we
>can take this forward and start contributing to the Koha community in
>future, starting in next few months.
>
>*On the other hand, I would like to share the following with you :*
>
>As duly acknowledged by the Koha community here, we are the entity
>(then
>known as Indserve Infotech Pvt. Ltd.) that introduced Koha in India
>with
>the first commercially done Koha implementation at Delhi Pubic Library,
>in
>2007-08, for which I can show you the formal purchase order also.
>Its another story that our trainee-engineer, who was trained by us on
>this
>project, left us, cheated us, took away the clients we were negotiating
>and
>harmed our work seriously, went to another company and is active on
>Koha
>even now.
>We were forced to lie low for a while (due to illegal actions of a
>large
>MNC against us) and restarted our activities in a big way again in
>2010,
>and after creating over 165 clients across 15 countries, have now taken
>Koha to new level, whereby we are offering the complete services free
>of
>cost and this is taking us places.
>
>The amount of publicity, growth and expansion that we have done with
>Koha
>is tremendous when you see the number of clients, the spread of these
>clients, and their support to us because of un-breaking services.
>
>I am aware that people like Vinod Mishra and some others are quiet
>jealous
>of us and now with these free services, they are, possibly, afraid of
>losing their business. And, because of this, they find all kinds of
>excuses
>of speaking against us with clients and here also on the list.
>
>I see no reason for deleting our name, because, caused by such negative
>people, it will only give bad name to the whole of community, a cause
>to
>which we have given our full support form the very beginning. And,
>moreover, we have done nothing against Koha. Rather, with the number of
>libraries to our credit, we are among the biggest providers of Koha
>services.
>
>To promote our services, we do send mails to libraries and in that
>process,
>the mail went to mycpl.org also. Owen Leonard felt bad about it, wrote
>to
>me, and I replied to him with my apologies, as our intentions have
>solely
>been to promote Koha. However, there is no law or convention that says
>that
>a Koha service provider cannot send promotional mails to libraries.
>Please
>help me understand this point better, if I am missing something.
>
>I will not speak against any of them, as, that is neither my style, nor
>am
>I person driven by fears.
>
>Being a Humanist, I am aware that I need to contribute to the good of
>this
>world, that has given me my life and everything else that I have and I
>am
>very happy contributing to Linux and Koha in my own way.
>*I have not done much, with my more than 400 Libraries to my credit, I
>wonder if this is negligible.*
>
>And, for that "crime" (if that's how these people will prefer to term
>it),
>as its being labelled by some ignorant ones, if you think Koha
>community
>will be happier without me on the list, let's set the new standards.
>
>I am quiet aware that Koha is a community thing and fortunately not a
>personal property of anyone, and due to that fact alone, it is
>important,
>that, as a Community, we set the highest standards, which are not
>driven by
>the fears of a few ignorant ones, but by the bold-selfless actions of
>those
>who do for the society.
>
>I look forward to hearing from you on this.
>
>I assure you that, very soon, you will find me increasingly active on
>the
>list.
>
>By the way, my request of adding my new company "Best Book Buddies" to
>the
>list of service providers is pending for around a year.
>
>Sudhir Gandotra
>www.bestbookbuddies.com
>+91-9810120918
>
>On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Jonathan Druart <
>[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I have sent them several emails and they never answered. They are
>already
>> on my list of companies to remove from the list.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jonathan
>>
>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 at 08:56 Owen Leonard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > Has anyone else received spam from "BestBookBuddies   - an
>Initiative
>> > of: OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd." ? They recently spammed me and
>> > everyone else on my library's contact page.
>> >
>> > If it were up to me they would be removed from the list of paid
>> > support providers, but I don't think the rules explicitly forbid
>> > sending spam.
>> >
>> >  -- Owen
>> >
>> > --
>> > Web Developer
>> > Athens County Public Libraries
>> > http://www.myacpl.org
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>
>
>
>
>--
>*Kind Regards** with Season's Greetings,*
>*Sudhir Gandotra  |*
>*  C. E. O.*
>*OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd.,*
>*Regd. Office : F-34/5, Okhla Indl Area, Phase-II, **New Delhi -
>110020,
>INDIA*
>*Websites:www.openlx.com <http://www.openlx.com/>* | *E-Mail:
>[hidden email]
><[hidden email]>  |  <http://goog_1154387719>**www.kalculate.com*
><http://www.kalculate.com>
>* <http://openlx.com/>  * <http://koha.openlx.com/>    [image:
>http://openlx.com/dspace.html] <http://openlx.com/dspace.html>
>*Office:  +91-11-2638-5034,  **+91-11-2638-5035* |
>*Mobile: +91-98101-20918*
>*Kalculate Datasheet
><http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/kalculate_brochure.pdf> | Kalculate
>Introduction
><http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/kalculate_introduction.pdf> |
>OpenLX
>Profile <http://openlx.com/downloads/openlx_technologies_profile.pdf> |
>OpenLX for Government
><http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/openlx_for_government.pdf>
>Newsletter_Jan-16 <http://www.kalculate.com/newsletter_jan16.pdf>*
>*Linux Download
><http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/download-linux.html> | Careers
><http://openlx.com/careers.html> | Training
><http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/training.html> | Enquiry
><http://openlx.com/enq/>** | Clients
><http://www.openlx.com/client_list.png>** | OpenLX on FB
><https://www.facebook.com/openlxlinux> | LinkedIN
><http://www.linkedin.com/company/2938809>*
>* | Kalculate on FB <https://www.facebook.com/businessdesktop>*
>
>*Koha Online Demo <http://koha.openlx.com>  |  DSpace Online Demo
><http://dspace.openlx.com:8080/jspui>*
>_______________________________________________
>Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>[hidden email]
>https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
[hidden email]
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
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Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate
Well Chris Cormack,  It will be very interesting to note that a Koha
Service Provider with over 400 Libraries to his credit, will be removed
from the official list, because he sent a mail to a Library informing about
his Koha Services.

It will be an interesting standard to be fixed for this community and to be
watched closely by many in the future.

It is interesting to note that while you do not rightly want to be part of
the trouble between some service providers, you seem to be influenced by
some of them. I hope I will be proven wrong on this point, which seems to
be clear conclusion from what you wrote.

*By the way, how do we decide that my mail to a library, a direct mail sent
to them, can be termed as a spam ?*

*Since when, did people start talking of their services only when someone
asks for them ?*

I trust the common sense will prevail and all of us will remain promoting
Koha and not the fears of some people around here.

By the way, my request for being listed as a Koha service provider
(BestBook Buddies.com) is still not approved and I have resent the request
today.

Sudhir Gandotra

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 11:42 PM, Chris Cormack <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Just a quick note, unsolicited emails, or spam as it is commonly known is
> indeed a crime in some jurisdictions. And in almost every one it is against
> convention.
>
> I'm not going to respond to the rest of your email which reads as a
> personal fight between you and other Indian Koha developers/companies.
> Please leave this kind of email off the list in future.
>
> And if you plan to continue to send unsolicited emails to people then I
> think the request to remove the listing should stand
>
> Chris
>
> On 9 August 2017 5:58:37 AM NZST, "Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate" <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Jonathan Druart,
>>
>> I am rather surprised to note this mail.
>>
>> The only mail that I see from you to me was as below :
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]>
>> May 17
>> to koha
>>
>> Dear Sudhir Gandotra,
>>
>> You are receiving this email because you are listed as a paid support
>> company on the Koha community website (https://koha-community.org/su
>> pport/paid-support).
>>
>> We are updating the list of paid support companies for Koha on our
>> community website. Please, after reading this email, either hit reply or
>> complete the form mentioned below to confirm you are still an active
>> support company.
>>
>> The next development cycle of Koha (17.11) is going to start before the
>> month of May is out.
>> Over the next 6 months we will be building the latest, even more awesome,
>> release of Koha.  We strongly believe that having everybody involved is
>> fundamental to achieving this.
>>
>> We want to build a task force and for that, we need to know who can commit
>> time and effort that we can count on, in order to estimate the goals we can
>> reach.
>> Even if you have never been involved in the Koha community but are using
>> Koha, you can help us by committing just a few hours each month:
>> library workers or support companies can contribute massively by providing
>> feedback, testing patches, contributing to the documentation or by getting
>> involved in other specific tasks. Even if you do not know how to code you
>> can help shape the next release and improve Koha.
>> If you want to help, or if you have specific requests for this release,
>> please let us know by completing this form:
>>
>>  https://framaforms.org/ready-to-help-the-koha-community-1493918217 <
>>>
>>
>> Just a couple of hours per month dedicated to the project is a huge help!
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Jonathan Druart on behalf of the Koha community
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>> I have not replied to it, as I am usually been travelling extensively for
>> the last 12 months, but, within our team, we are discussing as to how we
>> can take this forward and start contributing to the Koha community in
>> future, starting in next few months.
>>
>> *On the other hand, I would like to share the following with you :*
>>
>>
>> As duly acknowledged by the Koha community here, we are the entity (then
>> known as Indserve Infotech Pvt. Ltd.) that introduced Koha in India with
>> the first commercially done Koha implementation at Delhi Pubic Library, in
>> 2007-08, for which I can show you the formal purchase order also.
>> Its another story that our trainee-engineer, who was trained by us on this
>> project, left us, cheated us, took away the clients we were negotiating and
>> harmed our work seriously, went to another company and is active on Koha
>> even now.
>> We were forced to lie low for a while (due to illegal actions of a large
>> MNC against us) and restarted our activities in a big way again in 2010,
>> and after creating over 165 clients across 15 countries, have now taken
>> Koha to new level, whereby we are offering the complete services free of
>> cost and this is taking us places.
>>
>> The amount of publicity, growth and expansion that we have done with Koha
>> is tremendous when you see the number of clients, the spread of these
>> clients, and their support to us because of un-breaking services.
>>
>> I am aware that people like Vinod Mishra and some others are quiet jealous
>> of us and now with these free services, they are, possibly, afraid of
>> losing their business. And, because of this, they find all kinds of excuses
>> of speaking against us with clients and here also on the list.
>>
>> I see no reason for deleting our name, because, caused by such negative
>> people, it will only give bad name to the whole of community, a cause to
>> which we have given our full support form the very beginning. And,
>> moreover, we have done nothing against Koha. Rather, with the number of
>> libraries to our credit, we are among the biggest providers of Koha
>> services.
>>
>> To promote our services, we do send mails to libraries and in that process,
>> the mail went to mycpl.org also. Owen Leonard felt bad about it, wrote to
>> me, and I replied to him with my apologies, as our intentions have solely
>> been to promote Koha. However, there is no law or convention that says that
>> a Koha service provider cannot send promotional mails to libraries. Please
>> help me understand this point better, if I am missing something.
>>
>> I will not speak against any of them, as, that is neither my style, nor am
>> I person driven by fears.
>>
>> Being a Humanist, I am aware that I need to contribute to the good of this
>> world, that has given me my life and everything else that I have and I am
>> very happy contributing to Linux and Koha in my own way.
>> *I have not done much, with my more than 400 Libraries to my credit, I
>> wonder if this is negligible.*
>>
>>
>> And, for that "crime" (if that's how these people will prefer to term it),
>> as its being labelled by some ignorant ones, if you think Koha community
>> will be happier without me on the list, let's set the new standards.
>>
>> I am quiet aware that Koha is a community thing and fortunately not a
>> personal property of anyone, and due to that fact alone, it is important,
>> that, as a Community, we set the highest standards, which are not driven by
>> the fears of a few ignorant ones, but by the bold-selfless actions of those
>> who do for the society.
>>
>> I look forward to hearing from you on this.
>>
>> I assure you that, very soon, you will find me increasingly active on the
>> list.
>>
>> By the way, my request of adding my new company "Best Book Buddies" to the
>> list of service providers is pending for around a year.
>>
>> Sudhir Gandotra
>> www.bestbookbuddies.com
>> +91-9810120918
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Jonathan Druart <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>  I have sent them several emails and they never answered. They are already
>>>  on my list of companies to remove from the list.
>>>
>>>  Cheers,
>>>  Jonathan
>>>
>>>  On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 at 08:56 Owen Leonard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Has anyone else received spam from "BestBookBuddies   - an Initiative
>>>>  of: OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd." ? They recently spammed me and
>>>>  everyone else on my library's contact page.
>>>>
>>>>  If it were up to me they would be removed from the list of paid
>>>>  support providers, but I don't think the rules explicitly forbid
>>>>  sending spam.
>>>>
>>>>   -- Owen
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>>  Web Developer
>>>>  Athens County Public Libraries
>>>>  http://www.myacpl.org
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>  Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>>>>  [hidden email]
>>>>  https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>  Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>>>  [hidden email]
>>>  https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>



--
*Kind Regards** with Season's Greetings,*
*Sudhir Gandotra  |*
*  C. E. O.*
*OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd.,*
*Regd. Office : F-34/5, Okhla Indl Area, Phase-II, **New Delhi - 110020,
INDIA*
*Websites:www.openlx.com <http://www.openlx.com/>* | *E-Mail: [hidden email]
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<http://www.kalculate.com>
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http://openlx.com/dspace.html] <http://openlx.com/dspace.html>
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*Mobile: +91-98101-20918*
*Kalculate Datasheet
<http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/kalculate_brochure.pdf> | Kalculate
Introduction
<http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/kalculate_introduction.pdf> | OpenLX
Profile <http://openlx.com/downloads/openlx_technologies_profile.pdf> |
OpenLX for Government
<http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/openlx_for_government.pdf>
Newsletter_Jan-16 <http://www.kalculate.com/newsletter_jan16.pdf>*
*Linux Download
<http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/download-linux.html> | Careers
<http://openlx.com/careers.html> | Training
<http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/training.html> | Enquiry
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Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

Jonathan Druart
This is spam:
http://www.lislinks.com/forum/topics/how-to-import-data-from-libsys-to-koha

Moreover the request you made got an answer:
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2016-November/046546.html
=> OpenLX is already listed.
By the way the link to the demo is down.

On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 at 15:26 Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Well Chris Cormack,  It will be very interesting to note that a Koha
> Service Provider with over 400 Libraries to his credit, will be removed
> from the official list, because he sent a mail to a Library informing about
> his Koha Services.
>
> It will be an interesting standard to be fixed for this community and to
> be watched closely by many in the future.
>
> It is interesting to note that while you do not rightly want to be part of
> the trouble between some service providers, you seem to be influenced by
> some of them. I hope I will be proven wrong on this point, which seems to
> be clear conclusion from what you wrote.
>
> *By the way, how do we decide that my mail to a library, a direct mail
> sent to them, can be termed as a spam ?*
>
> *Since when, did people start talking of their services only when someone
> asks for them ?*
>
> I trust the common sense will prevail and all of us will remain promoting
> Koha and not the fears of some people around here.
>
> By the way, my request for being listed as a Koha service provider
> (BestBook Buddies.com) is still not approved and I have resent the request
> today.
>
> Sudhir Gandotra
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 11:42 PM, Chris Cormack <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Just a quick note, unsolicited emails, or spam as it is commonly known is
>> indeed a crime in some jurisdictions. And in almost every one it is against
>> convention.
>>
>> I'm not going to respond to the rest of your email which reads as a
>> personal fight between you and other Indian Koha developers/companies.
>> Please leave this kind of email off the list in future.
>>
>> And if you plan to continue to send unsolicited emails to people then I
>> think the request to remove the listing should stand
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On 9 August 2017 5:58:37 AM NZST, "Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate" <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Jonathan Druart,
>>>
>>> I am rather surprised to note this mail.
>>>
>>> The only mail that I see from you to me was as below :
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]>
>>> May 17
>>> to koha
>>>
>>> Dear Sudhir Gandotra,
>>>
>>> You are receiving this email because you are listed as a paid support
>>> company on the Koha community website (https://koha-community.org/su
>>> pport/paid-support).
>>>
>>> We are updating the list of paid support companies for Koha on our
>>> community website. Please, after reading this email, either hit reply or
>>> complete the form mentioned below to confirm you are still an active
>>> support company.
>>>
>>> The next development cycle of Koha (17.11) is going to start before the
>>> month of May is out.
>>> Over the next 6 months we will be building the latest, even more awesome,
>>> release of Koha.  We strongly believe that having everybody involved is
>>> fundamental to achieving this.
>>>
>>> We want to build a task force and for that, we need to know who can commit
>>> time and effort that we can count on, in order to estimate the goals we can
>>> reach.
>>> Even if you have never been involved in the Koha community but are using
>>> Koha, you can help us by committing just a few hours each month:
>>> library workers or support companies can contribute massively by providing
>>> feedback, testing patches, contributing to the documentation or by getting
>>> involved in other specific tasks. Even if you do not know how to code you
>>> can help shape the next release and improve Koha.
>>> If you want to help, or if you have specific requests for this release,
>>> please let us know by completing this form:
>>>
>>>  https://framaforms.org/ready-to-help-the-koha-community-1493918217 <
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just a couple of hours per month dedicated to the project is a huge help!
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Jonathan Druart on behalf of the Koha community
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> I have not replied to it, as I am usually been travelling extensively for
>>> the last 12 months, but, within our team, we are discussing as to how we
>>> can take this forward and start contributing to the Koha community in
>>> future, starting in next few months.
>>>
>>> *On the other hand, I would like to share the following with you :*
>>>
>>>
>>> As duly acknowledged by the Koha community here, we are the entity (then
>>> known as Indserve Infotech Pvt. Ltd.) that introduced Koha in India with
>>> the first commercially done Koha implementation at Delhi Pubic Library, in
>>> 2007-08, for which I can show you the formal purchase order also.
>>> Its another story that our trainee-engineer, who was trained by us on this
>>> project, left us, cheated us, took away the clients we were negotiating and
>>> harmed our work seriously, went to another company and is active on Koha
>>> even now.
>>> We were forced to lie low for a while (due to illegal actions of a large
>>> MNC against us) and restarted our activities in a big way again in 2010,
>>> and after creating over 165 clients across 15 countries, have now taken
>>> Koha to new level, whereby we are offering the complete services free of
>>> cost and this is taking us places.
>>>
>>> The amount of publicity, growth and expansion that we have done with Koha
>>> is tremendous when you see the number of clients, the spread of these
>>> clients, and their support to us because of un-breaking services.
>>>
>>> I am aware that people like Vinod Mishra and some others are quiet jealous
>>> of us and now with these free services, they are, possibly, afraid of
>>> losing their business. And, because of this, they find all kinds of excuses
>>> of speaking against us with clients and here also on the list.
>>>
>>> I see no reason for deleting our name, because, caused by such negative
>>> people, it will only give bad name to the whole of community, a cause to
>>> which we have given our full support form the very beginning. And,
>>> moreover, we have done nothing against Koha. Rather, with the number of
>>> libraries to our credit, we are among the biggest providers of Koha
>>> services.
>>>
>>> To promote our services, we do send mails to libraries and in that process,
>>> the mail went to mycpl.org also. Owen Leonard felt bad about it, wrote to
>>> me, and I replied to him with my apologies, as our intentions have solely
>>> been to promote Koha. However, there is no law or convention that says that
>>> a Koha service provider cannot send promotional mails to libraries. Please
>>> help me understand this point better, if I am missing something.
>>>
>>> I will not speak against any of them, as, that is neither my style, nor am
>>> I person driven by fears.
>>>
>>> Being a Humanist, I am aware that I need to contribute to the good of this
>>> world, that has given me my life and everything else that I have and I am
>>> very happy contributing to Linux and Koha in my own way.
>>> *I have not done much, with my more than 400 Libraries to my credit, I
>>> wonder if this is negligible.*
>>>
>>>
>>> And, for that "crime" (if that's how these people will prefer to term it),
>>> as its being labelled by some ignorant ones, if you think Koha community
>>> will be happier without me on the list, let's set the new standards.
>>>
>>> I am quiet aware that Koha is a community thing and fortunately not a
>>> personal property of anyone, and due to that fact alone, it is important,
>>> that, as a Community, we set the highest standards, which are not driven by
>>> the fears of a few ignorant ones, but by the bold-selfless actions of those
>>> who do for the society.
>>>
>>> I look forward to hearing from you on this.
>>>
>>> I assure you that, very soon, you will find me increasingly active on the
>>> list.
>>>
>>> By the way, my request of adding my new company "Best Book Buddies" to the
>>> list of service providers is pending for around a year.
>>>
>>> Sudhir Gandotra
>>> www.bestbookbuddies.com
>>> +91-9810120918 <+91%2098101%2020918>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Jonathan Druart <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>  I have sent them several emails and they never answered. They are already
>>>>  on my list of companies to remove from the list.
>>>>
>>>>  Cheers,
>>>>  Jonathan
>>>>
>>>>  On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 at 08:56 Owen Leonard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Has anyone else received spam from "BestBookBuddies   - an Initiative
>>>>>  of: OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd." ? They recently spammed me and
>>>>>  everyone else on my library's contact page.
>>>>>
>>>>>  If it were up to me they would be removed from the list of paid
>>>>>  support providers, but I don't think the rules explicitly forbid
>>>>>  sending spam.
>>>>>
>>>>>   -- Owen
>>>>>
>>>>>  --
>>>>>  Web Developer
>>>>>  Athens County Public Libraries
>>>>>  http://www.myacpl.org
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>  Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>>>>>  [hidden email]
>>>>>  https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>  Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>>>>  [hidden email]
>>>>  https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Kind Regards** with Season's Greetings,*
> *Sudhir Gandotra  |*
> *  C. E. O.*
> *OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd.,*
> *Regd. Office : F-34/5, Okhla Indl Area, Phase-II, **New Delhi - 110020,
> INDIA*
> *Websites:www.openlx.com <http://www.openlx.com/>* | *E-Mail: [hidden email]
> <[hidden email]>  |  <http://goog_1154387719>**www.kalculate.com*
> <http://www.kalculate.com>
> * <http://openlx.com/>  * <http://koha.openlx.com/>    [image:
> http://openlx.com/dspace.html] <http://openlx.com/dspace.html>
> *Office:  +91-11-2638-5034 <+91%2011%202638%205034>,  **+91-11-2638-5035
> <+91%2011%202638%205035>* |
> *Mobile: +91-98101-20918 <+91%2098101%2020918>*
> *Kalculate Datasheet
> <http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/kalculate_brochure.pdf> | Kalculate
> Introduction
> <http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/kalculate_introduction.pdf> | OpenLX
> Profile <http://openlx.com/downloads/openlx_technologies_profile.pdf> |
> OpenLX for Government
> <http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/openlx_for_government.pdf>
> Newsletter_Jan-16 <http://www.kalculate.com/newsletter_jan16.pdf>*
> *Linux Download
> <http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/download-linux.html> | Careers
> <http://openlx.com/careers.html> | Training
> <http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/training.html> | Enquiry
> <http://openlx.com/enq/>** | Clients
> <http://www.openlx.com/client_list.png>** | OpenLX on FB
> <https://www.facebook.com/openlxlinux> | LinkedIN
> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/2938809>*
> * | Kalculate on FB <https://www.facebook.com/businessdesktop>*
>
> *Koha Online Demo <http://koha.openlx.com>  |  DSpace Online Demo
> <http://dspace.openlx.com:8080/jspui>*
>
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Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

Katrin Fischer-2
In reply to this post by Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate
This is what I get from the discussion so far as facts that concern the
community:

- You never replied to Jonathan or filled out the form. That's why you
ended up on the list of companies to be removed from the directory.

- You sent unsolicited emails advertising your servies to a library in
the US. I can tell you that this kind of action is frowned upon not only
in the US, but in Germany too.

Everything else you write about I have no idea about nor do I think this
is the right place to discuss it.

Katrin

On 08.08.2017 20:26, Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate wrote:

> Well Chris Cormack,  It will be very interesting to note that a Koha
> Service Provider with over 400 Libraries to his credit, will be removed
> from the official list, because he sent a mail to a Library informing about
> his Koha Services.
>
> It will be an interesting standard to be fixed for this community and to be
> watched closely by many in the future.
>
> It is interesting to note that while you do not rightly want to be part of
> the trouble between some service providers, you seem to be influenced by
> some of them. I hope I will be proven wrong on this point, which seems to
> be clear conclusion from what you wrote.
>
> *By the way, how do we decide that my mail to a library, a direct mail sent
> to them, can be termed as a spam ?*
>
> *Since when, did people start talking of their services only when someone
> asks for them ?*
>
> I trust the common sense will prevail and all of us will remain promoting
> Koha and not the fears of some people around here.
>
> By the way, my request for being listed as a Koha service provider
> (BestBook Buddies.com) is still not approved and I have resent the request
> today.
>
> Sudhir Gandotra
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 11:42 PM, Chris Cormack <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Just a quick note, unsolicited emails, or spam as it is commonly known is
>> indeed a crime in some jurisdictions. And in almost every one it is against
>> convention.
>>
>> I'm not going to respond to the rest of your email which reads as a
>> personal fight between you and other Indian Koha developers/companies.
>> Please leave this kind of email off the list in future.
>>
>> And if you plan to continue to send unsolicited emails to people then I
>> think the request to remove the listing should stand
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On 9 August 2017 5:58:37 AM NZST, "Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate" <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Dear Jonathan Druart,
>>>
>>> I am rather surprised to note this mail.
>>>
>>> The only mail that I see from you to me was as below :
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]>
>>> May 17
>>> to koha
>>>
>>> Dear Sudhir Gandotra,
>>>
>>> You are receiving this email because you are listed as a paid support
>>> company on the Koha community website (https://koha-community.org/su
>>> pport/paid-support).
>>>
>>> We are updating the list of paid support companies for Koha on our
>>> community website. Please, after reading this email, either hit reply or
>>> complete the form mentioned below to confirm you are still an active
>>> support company.
>>>
>>> The next development cycle of Koha (17.11) is going to start before the
>>> month of May is out.
>>> Over the next 6 months we will be building the latest, even more awesome,
>>> release of Koha.  We strongly believe that having everybody involved is
>>> fundamental to achieving this.
>>>
>>> We want to build a task force and for that, we need to know who can commit
>>> time and effort that we can count on, in order to estimate the goals we can
>>> reach.
>>> Even if you have never been involved in the Koha community but are using
>>> Koha, you can help us by committing just a few hours each month:
>>> library workers or support companies can contribute massively by providing
>>> feedback, testing patches, contributing to the documentation or by getting
>>> involved in other specific tasks. Even if you do not know how to code you
>>> can help shape the next release and improve Koha.
>>> If you want to help, or if you have specific requests for this release,
>>> please let us know by completing this form:
>>>
>>>   https://framaforms.org/ready-to-help-the-koha-community-1493918217 <
>>> Just a couple of hours per month dedicated to the project is a huge help!
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Jonathan Druart on behalf of the Koha community
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> I have not replied to it, as I am usually been travelling extensively for
>>> the last 12 months, but, within our team, we are discussing as to how we
>>> can take this forward and start contributing to the Koha community in
>>> future, starting in next few months.
>>>
>>> *On the other hand, I would like to share the following with you :*
>>>
>>>
>>> As duly acknowledged by the Koha community here, we are the entity (then
>>> known as Indserve Infotech Pvt. Ltd.) that introduced Koha in India with
>>> the first commercially done Koha implementation at Delhi Pubic Library, in
>>> 2007-08, for which I can show you the formal purchase order also.
>>> Its another story that our trainee-engineer, who was trained by us on this
>>> project, left us, cheated us, took away the clients we were negotiating and
>>> harmed our work seriously, went to another company and is active on Koha
>>> even now.
>>> We were forced to lie low for a while (due to illegal actions of a large
>>> MNC against us) and restarted our activities in a big way again in 2010,
>>> and after creating over 165 clients across 15 countries, have now taken
>>> Koha to new level, whereby we are offering the complete services free of
>>> cost and this is taking us places.
>>>
>>> The amount of publicity, growth and expansion that we have done with Koha
>>> is tremendous when you see the number of clients, the spread of these
>>> clients, and their support to us because of un-breaking services.
>>>
>>> I am aware that people like Vinod Mishra and some others are quiet jealous
>>> of us and now with these free services, they are, possibly, afraid of
>>> losing their business. And, because of this, they find all kinds of excuses
>>> of speaking against us with clients and here also on the list.
>>>
>>> I see no reason for deleting our name, because, caused by such negative
>>> people, it will only give bad name to the whole of community, a cause to
>>> which we have given our full support form the very beginning. And,
>>> moreover, we have done nothing against Koha. Rather, with the number of
>>> libraries to our credit, we are among the biggest providers of Koha
>>> services.
>>>
>>> To promote our services, we do send mails to libraries and in that process,
>>> the mail went to mycpl.org also. Owen Leonard felt bad about it, wrote to
>>> me, and I replied to him with my apologies, as our intentions have solely
>>> been to promote Koha. However, there is no law or convention that says that
>>> a Koha service provider cannot send promotional mails to libraries. Please
>>> help me understand this point better, if I am missing something.
>>>
>>> I will not speak against any of them, as, that is neither my style, nor am
>>> I person driven by fears.
>>>
>>> Being a Humanist, I am aware that I need to contribute to the good of this
>>> world, that has given me my life and everything else that I have and I am
>>> very happy contributing to Linux and Koha in my own way.
>>> *I have not done much, with my more than 400 Libraries to my credit, I
>>> wonder if this is negligible.*
>>>
>>>
>>> And, for that "crime" (if that's how these people will prefer to term it),
>>> as its being labelled by some ignorant ones, if you think Koha community
>>> will be happier without me on the list, let's set the new standards.
>>>
>>> I am quiet aware that Koha is a community thing and fortunately not a
>>> personal property of anyone, and due to that fact alone, it is important,
>>> that, as a Community, we set the highest standards, which are not driven by
>>> the fears of a few ignorant ones, but by the bold-selfless actions of those
>>> who do for the society.
>>>
>>> I look forward to hearing from you on this.
>>>
>>> I assure you that, very soon, you will find me increasingly active on the
>>> list.
>>>
>>> By the way, my request of adding my new company "Best Book Buddies" to the
>>> list of service providers is pending for around a year.
>>>
>>> Sudhir Gandotra
>>> www.bestbookbuddies.com
>>> +91-9810120918
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Jonathan Druart <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>   I have sent them several emails and they never answered. They are already
>>>>   on my list of companies to remove from the list.
>>>>
>>>>   Cheers,
>>>>   Jonathan
>>>>
>>>>   On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 at 08:56 Owen Leonard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   Has anyone else received spam from "BestBookBuddies   - an Initiative
>>>>>   of: OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd." ? They recently spammed me and
>>>>>   everyone else on my library's contact page.
>>>>>
>>>>>   If it were up to me they would be removed from the list of paid
>>>>>   support providers, but I don't think the rules explicitly forbid
>>>>>   sending spam.
>>>>>
>>>>>    -- Owen
>>>>>
>>>>>   --
>>>>>   Web Developer
>>>>>   Athens County Public Libraries
>>>>>   http://www.myacpl.org
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>   Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>>>>>   [hidden email]
>>>>>   https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>   Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>>>>   [hidden email]
>>>>   https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>
>

_______________________________________________
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https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
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Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate
In reply to this post by Jonathan Druart
Thanks Jonathan, for pointing out that link on lislinks.com - it was a
un-intended mistake - not knowing that replying to different people would
get consolidated on one page. I have now deleted them, and will take care
of such things in future.

My new request for registration can be the consolidation of earlier
listings.

Best wishes,

Sudhir Gandotra
www.bestbookbuddies.com



On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 12:15 AM, Jonathan Druart <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is spam:
> http://www.lislinks.com/forum/topics/how-to-import-data-
> from-libsys-to-koha
>
> Moreover the request you made got an answer: https://lists.katipo.
> co.nz/pipermail/koha/2016-November/046546.html
> => OpenLX is already listed.
> By the way the link to the demo is down.
>
> On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 at 15:26 Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Well Chris Cormack,  It will be very interesting to note that a Koha
>> Service Provider with over 400 Libraries to his credit, will be removed
>> from the official list, because he sent a mail to a Library informing about
>> his Koha Services.
>>
>> It will be an interesting standard to be fixed for this community and to
>> be watched closely by many in the future.
>>
>> It is interesting to note that while you do not rightly want to be part
>> of the trouble between some service providers, you seem to be influenced by
>> some of them. I hope I will be proven wrong on this point, which seems to
>> be clear conclusion from what you wrote.
>>
>> *By the way, how do we decide that my mail to a library, a direct mail
>> sent to them, can be termed as a spam ?*
>>
>> *Since when, did people start talking of their services only when someone
>> asks for them ?*
>>
>> I trust the common sense will prevail and all of us will remain promoting
>> Koha and not the fears of some people around here.
>>
>> By the way, my request for being listed as a Koha service provider
>> (BestBook Buddies.com) is still not approved and I have resent the request
>> today.
>>
>> Sudhir Gandotra
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 11:42 PM, Chris Cormack <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just a quick note, unsolicited emails, or spam as it is commonly known
>>> is indeed a crime in some jurisdictions. And in almost every one it is
>>> against convention.
>>>
>>> I'm not going to respond to the rest of your email which reads as a
>>> personal fight between you and other Indian Koha developers/companies.
>>> Please leave this kind of email off the list in future.
>>>
>>> And if you plan to continue to send unsolicited emails to people then I
>>> think the request to remove the listing should stand
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> On 9 August 2017 5:58:37 AM NZST, "Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate" <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Jonathan Druart,
>>>>
>>>> I am rather surprised to note this mail.
>>>>
>>>> The only mail that I see from you to me was as below :
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]>
>>>> May 17
>>>> to koha
>>>>
>>>> Dear Sudhir Gandotra,
>>>>
>>>> You are receiving this email because you are listed as a paid support
>>>> company on the Koha community website (https://koha-community.org/su
>>>> pport/paid-support).
>>>>
>>>> We are updating the list of paid support companies for Koha on our
>>>> community website. Please, after reading this email, either hit reply or
>>>> complete the form mentioned below to confirm you are still an active
>>>> support company.
>>>>
>>>> The next development cycle of Koha (17.11) is going to start before the
>>>> month of May is out.
>>>> Over the next 6 months we will be building the latest, even more awesome,
>>>> release of Koha.  We strongly believe that having everybody involved is
>>>> fundamental to achieving this.
>>>>
>>>> We want to build a task force and for that, we need to know who can commit
>>>> time and effort that we can count on, in order to estimate the goals we can
>>>> reach.
>>>> Even if you have never been involved in the Koha community but are using
>>>> Koha, you can help us by committing just a few hours each month:
>>>> library workers or support companies can contribute massively by providing
>>>> feedback, testing patches, contributing to the documentation or by getting
>>>> involved in other specific tasks. Even if you do not know how to code you
>>>> can help shape the next release and improve Koha.
>>>> If you want to help, or if you have specific requests for this release,
>>>> please let us know by completing this form:
>>>>
>>>>  https://framaforms.org/ready-to-help-the-koha-community-1493918217 <
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just a couple of hours per month dedicated to the project is a huge help!
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Jonathan Druart on behalf of the Koha community
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have not replied to it, as I am usually been travelling extensively for
>>>> the last 12 months, but, within our team, we are discussing as to how we
>>>> can take this forward and start contributing to the Koha community in
>>>> future, starting in next few months.
>>>>
>>>> *On the other hand, I would like to share the following with you :*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As duly acknowledged by the Koha community here, we are the entity (then
>>>> known as Indserve Infotech Pvt. Ltd.) that introduced Koha in India with
>>>> the first commercially done Koha implementation at Delhi Pubic Library, in
>>>> 2007-08, for which I can show you the formal purchase order also.
>>>> Its another story that our trainee-engineer, who was trained by us on this
>>>> project, left us, cheated us, took away the clients we were negotiating and
>>>> harmed our work seriously, went to another company and is active on Koha
>>>> even now.
>>>> We were forced to lie low for a while (due to illegal actions of a large
>>>> MNC against us) and restarted our activities in a big way again in 2010,
>>>> and after creating over 165 clients across 15 countries, have now taken
>>>> Koha to new level, whereby we are offering the complete services free of
>>>> cost and this is taking us places.
>>>>
>>>> The amount of publicity, growth and expansion that we have done with Koha
>>>> is tremendous when you see the number of clients, the spread of these
>>>> clients, and their support to us because of un-breaking services.
>>>>
>>>> I am aware that people like Vinod Mishra and some others are quiet jealous
>>>> of us and now with these free services, they are, possibly, afraid of
>>>> losing their business. And, because of this, they find all kinds of excuses
>>>> of speaking against us with clients and here also on the list.
>>>>
>>>> I see no reason for deleting our name, because, caused by such negative
>>>> people, it will only give bad name to the whole of community, a cause to
>>>> which we have given our full support form the very beginning. And,
>>>> moreover, we have done nothing against Koha. Rather, with the number of
>>>> libraries to our credit, we are among the biggest providers of Koha
>>>> services.
>>>>
>>>> To promote our services, we do send mails to libraries and in that process,
>>>> the mail went to mycpl.org also. Owen Leonard felt bad about it, wrote to
>>>> me, and I replied to him with my apologies, as our intentions have solely
>>>> been to promote Koha. However, there is no law or convention that says that
>>>> a Koha service provider cannot send promotional mails to libraries. Please
>>>> help me understand this point better, if I am missing something.
>>>>
>>>> I will not speak against any of them, as, that is neither my style, nor am
>>>> I person driven by fears.
>>>>
>>>> Being a Humanist, I am aware that I need to contribute to the good of this
>>>> world, that has given me my life and everything else that I have and I am
>>>> very happy contributing to Linux and Koha in my own way.
>>>> *I have not done much, with my more than 400 Libraries to my credit, I
>>>> wonder if this is negligible.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And, for that "crime" (if that's how these people will prefer to term it),
>>>> as its being labelled by some ignorant ones, if you think Koha community
>>>> will be happier without me on the list, let's set the new standards.
>>>>
>>>> I am quiet aware that Koha is a community thing and fortunately not a
>>>> personal property of anyone, and due to that fact alone, it is important,
>>>> that, as a Community, we set the highest standards, which are not driven by
>>>> the fears of a few ignorant ones, but by the bold-selfless actions of those
>>>> who do for the society.
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to hearing from you on this.
>>>>
>>>> I assure you that, very soon, you will find me increasingly active on the
>>>> list.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, my request of adding my new company "Best Book Buddies" to the
>>>> list of service providers is pending for around a year.
>>>>
>>>> Sudhir Gandotra
>>>> www.bestbookbuddies.com
>>>> +91-9810120918 <+91%2098101%2020918>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Jonathan Druart <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I have sent them several emails and they never answered. They are already
>>>>>  on my list of companies to remove from the list.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Cheers,
>>>>>  Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>>  On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 at 08:56 Owen Leonard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Has anyone else received spam from "BestBookBuddies   - an Initiative
>>>>>>  of: OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd." ? They recently spammed me and
>>>>>>  everyone else on my library's contact page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  If it were up to me they would be removed from the list of paid
>>>>>>  support providers, but I don't think the rules explicitly forbid
>>>>>>  sending spam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   -- Owen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>  Web Developer
>>>>>>  Athens County Public Libraries
>>>>>>  http://www.myacpl.org
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>>>>>>  [hidden email]
>>>>>>  https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>  Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>>>>>  [hidden email]
>>>>>  https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Kind Regards** with Season's Greetings,*
>> *Sudhir Gandotra  |*
>> *  C. E. O.*
>> *OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd.,*
>> *Regd. Office : F-34/5, Okhla Indl Area, Phase-II, **New Delhi - 110020,
>> INDIA*
>> *Websites:www.openlx.com <http://www.openlx.com/>* | *E-Mail: [hidden email]
>> <[hidden email]>  |  <http://goog_1154387719>**www.kalculate.com*
>> <http://www.kalculate.com>
>> * <http://openlx.com/>  * <http://koha.openlx.com/>    [image:
>> http://openlx.com/dspace.html] <http://openlx.com/dspace.html>
>> *Office:  +91-11-2638-5034 <+91%2011%202638%205034>,  **+91-11-2638-5035
>> <+91%2011%202638%205035>* |
>> *Mobile: +91-98101-20918 <+91%2098101%2020918>*
>> *Kalculate Datasheet
>> <http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/kalculate_brochure.pdf> | Kalculate
>> Introduction
>> <http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/kalculate_introduction.pdf> | OpenLX
>> Profile <http://openlx.com/downloads/openlx_technologies_profile.pdf> |
>> OpenLX for Government
>> <http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/openlx_for_government.pdf>
>> Newsletter_Jan-16 <http://www.kalculate.com/newsletter_jan16.pdf>*
>> *Linux Download
>> <http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/download-linux.html> | Careers
>> <http://openlx.com/careers.html> | Training
>> <http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/training.html> | Enquiry
>> <http://openlx.com/enq/>** | Clients
>> <http://www.openlx.com/client_list.png>** | OpenLX on FB
>> <https://www.facebook.com/openlxlinux> | LinkedIN
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/2938809>*
>> * | Kalculate on FB <https://www.facebook.com/businessdesktop>*
>>
>> *Koha Online Demo <http://koha.openlx.com>  |  DSpace Online Demo
>> <http://dspace.openlx.com:8080/jspui>*
>>
>


--
*Kind Regards** with Season's Greetings,*
*Sudhir Gandotra  |*
*  C. E. O.*
*OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd.,*
*Regd. Office : F-34/5, Okhla Indl Area, Phase-II, **New Delhi - 110020,
INDIA*
*Websites:www.openlx.com <http://www.openlx.com/>* | *E-Mail: [hidden email]
<[hidden email]>  |  <http://goog_1154387719>**www.kalculate.com*
<http://www.kalculate.com>
* <http://openlx.com/>  * <http://koha.openlx.com/>    [image:
http://openlx.com/dspace.html] <http://openlx.com/dspace.html>
*Office:  +91-11-2638-5034,  **+91-11-2638-5035* |
*Mobile: +91-98101-20918*
*Kalculate Datasheet
<http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/kalculate_brochure.pdf> | Kalculate
Introduction
<http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/kalculate_introduction.pdf> | OpenLX
Profile <http://openlx.com/downloads/openlx_technologies_profile.pdf> |
OpenLX for Government
<http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/openlx_for_government.pdf>
Newsletter_Jan-16 <http://www.kalculate.com/newsletter_jan16.pdf>*
*Linux Download
<http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/download-linux.html> | Careers
<http://openlx.com/careers.html> | Training
<http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/training.html> | Enquiry
<http://openlx.com/enq/>** | Clients
<http://www.openlx.com/client_list.png>** | OpenLX on FB
<https://www.facebook.com/openlxlinux> | LinkedIN
<http://www.linkedin.com/company/2938809>*
* | Kalculate on FB <https://www.facebook.com/businessdesktop>*

*Koha Online Demo <http://koha.openlx.com>  |  DSpace Online Demo
<http://dspace.openlx.com:8080/jspui>*
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
[hidden email]
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
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Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

vinod mishra
In reply to this post by Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate
Dear All

Delist would be the best option, the reason is he do not know what he says
his statement is always contradictory and misguiding all on forum, once he
copied my material and watermarked his company name "bestbookbuddies"
without any references/acknowledgement. Myself is not businessman and
promoting open source among the libraries on voluntary basis as per terms
of my service condition, since i am an Indian government servant so can't
involve myself in such type of business, probably my volunteer services
harmed his business indirectly a lot so the reaction is expected.


"I am aware that people like Vinod Mishra and some others are quiet jealous
of us and now with these free services, they are, possibly, afraid of
losing their business"

"I will not speak against any of them, as, that is neither my style, nor am
I person driven by fears"


With Regards,

Vinod Kumar Mishra,
Assistant Librarian,
Biju Patnaik Central Library (BPCL),
NIT Rourkela,
Sundergadh-769008,
Odisha,
India.
Mob:91+9439420860
Website: http://mishravk.com/
ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-4666-7874

*"Spiritual relationship is far more precious than physical. Physical
relationship divorced from spiritual is body without soul" -- Mahatma
Gandhi*

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 11:28 PM, Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Jonathan Druart,
>
> I am rather surprised to note this mail.
>
> The only mail that I see from you to me was as below :
>
> =================================================
> Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]>
> May 17
> to koha
> Dear Sudhir Gandotra,
>
> You are receiving this email because you are listed as a paid support
> company on the Koha community website (https://koha-community.org/su
> pport/paid-support).
>
> We are updating the list of paid support companies for Koha on our
> community website. Please, after reading this email, either hit reply or
> complete the form mentioned below to confirm you are still an active
> support company.
>
> The next development cycle of Koha (17.11) is going to start before the
> month of May is out.
> Over the next 6 months we will be building the latest, even more awesome,
> release of Koha.  We strongly believe that having everybody involved is
> fundamental to achieving this.
>
> We want to build a task force and for that, we need to know who can commit
> time and effort that we can count on, in order to estimate the goals we can
> reach.
> Even if you have never been involved in the Koha community but are using
> Koha, you can help us by committing just a few hours each month:
> library workers or support companies can contribute massively by providing
> feedback, testing patches, contributing to the documentation or by getting
> involved in other specific tasks. Even if you do not know how to code you
> can help shape the next release and improve Koha.
> If you want to help, or if you have specific requests for this release,
> please let us know by completing this form:
>
>     > https://framaforms.org/ready-to-help-the-koha-community-1493918217 <
>
> Just a couple of hours per month dedicated to the project is a huge help!
>
> Best regards,
> Jonathan Druart on behalf of the Koha community
>
> =================================================
>
> I have not replied to it, as I am usually been travelling extensively for
> the last 12 months, but, within our team, we are discussing as to how we
> can take this forward and start contributing to the Koha community in
> future, starting in next few months.
>
> *On the other hand, I would like to share the following with you :*
>
> As duly acknowledged by the Koha community here, we are the entity (then
> known as Indserve Infotech Pvt. Ltd.) that introduced Koha in India with
> the first commercially done Koha implementation at Delhi Pubic Library, in
> 2007-08, for which I can show you the formal purchase order also.
> Its another story that our trainee-engineer, who was trained by us on this
> project, left us, cheated us, took away the clients we were negotiating and
> harmed our work seriously, went to another company and is active on Koha
> even now.
> We were forced to lie low for a while (due to illegal actions of a large
> MNC against us) and restarted our activities in a big way again in 2010,
> and after creating over 165 clients across 15 countries, have now taken
> Koha to new level, whereby we are offering the complete services free of
> cost and this is taking us places.
>
> The amount of publicity, growth and expansion that we have done with Koha
> is tremendous when you see the number of clients, the spread of these
> clients, and their support to us because of un-breaking services.
>
> I am aware that people like Vinod Mishra and some others are quiet jealous
> of us and now with these free services, they are, possibly, afraid of
> losing their business. And, because of this, they find all kinds of excuses
> of speaking against us with clients and here also on the list.
>
> I see no reason for deleting our name, because, caused by such negative
> people, it will only give bad name to the whole of community, a cause to
> which we have given our full support form the very beginning. And,
> moreover, we have done nothing against Koha. Rather, with the number of
> libraries to our credit, we are among the biggest providers of Koha
> services.
>
> To promote our services, we do send mails to libraries and in that process,
> the mail went to mycpl.org also. Owen Leonard felt bad about it, wrote to
> me, and I replied to him with my apologies, as our intentions have solely
> been to promote Koha. However, there is no law or convention that says that
> a Koha service provider cannot send promotional mails to libraries. Please
> help me understand this point better, if I am missing something.
>
> I will not speak against any of them, as, that is neither my style, nor am
> I person driven by fears.
>
> Being a Humanist, I am aware that I need to contribute to the good of this
> world, that has given me my life and everything else that I have and I am
> very happy contributing to Linux and Koha in my own way.
> *I have not done much, with my more than 400 Libraries to my credit, I
> wonder if this is negligible.*
>
> And, for that "crime" (if that's how these people will prefer to term it),
> as its being labelled by some ignorant ones, if you think Koha community
> will be happier without me on the list, let's set the new standards.
>
> I am quiet aware that Koha is a community thing and fortunately not a
> personal property of anyone, and due to that fact alone, it is important,
> that, as a Community, we set the highest standards, which are not driven by
> the fears of a few ignorant ones, but by the bold-selfless actions of those
> who do for the society.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you on this.
>
> I assure you that, very soon, you will find me increasingly active on the
> list.
>
> By the way, my request of adding my new company "Best Book Buddies" to the
> list of service providers is pending for around a year.
>
> Sudhir Gandotra
> www.bestbookbuddies.com
> +91-9810120918
>
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Jonathan Druart <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I have sent them several emails and they never answered. They are already
> > on my list of companies to remove from the list.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jonathan
> >
> > On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 at 08:56 Owen Leonard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Has anyone else received spam from "BestBookBuddies   - an Initiative
> > > of: OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd." ? They recently spammed me and
> > > everyone else on my library's contact page.
> > >
> > > If it were up to me they would be removed from the list of paid
> > > support providers, but I don't think the rules explicitly forbid
> > > sending spam.
> > >
> > >  -- Owen
> > >
> > > --
> > > Web Developer
> > > Athens County Public Libraries
> > > http://www.myacpl.org
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *Kind Regards** with Season's Greetings,*
> *Sudhir Gandotra  |*
> *  C. E. O.*
> *OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd.,*
> *Regd. Office : F-34/5, Okhla Indl Area, Phase-II, **New Delhi - 110020,
> INDIA*
> *Websites:www.openlx.com <http://www.openlx.com/>* | *E-Mail:
> [hidden email]
> <[hidden email]>  |  <http://goog_1154387719>**www.kalculate.com*
> <http://www.kalculate.com>
> * <http://openlx.com/>  * <http://koha.openlx.com/>    [image:
> http://openlx.com/dspace.html] <http://openlx.com/dspace.html>
> *Office:  +91-11-2638-5034,  **+91-11-2638-5035* |
> *Mobile: +91-98101-20918*
> *Kalculate Datasheet
> <http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/kalculate_brochure.pdf> | Kalculate
> Introduction
> <http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/kalculate_introduction.pdf> | OpenLX
> Profile <http://openlx.com/downloads/openlx_technologies_profile.pdf> |
> OpenLX for Government
> <http://www.kalculate.com/downloads/openlx_for_government.pdf>
> Newsletter_Jan-16 <http://www.kalculate.com/newsletter_jan16.pdf>*
> *Linux Download
> <http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/download-linux.html> | Careers
> <http://openlx.com/careers.html> | Training
> <http://openlx.com/openlx-linux/training.html> | Enquiry
> <http://openlx.com/enq/>** | Clients
> <http://www.openlx.com/client_list.png>** | OpenLX on FB
> <https://www.facebook.com/openlxlinux> | LinkedIN
> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/2938809>*
> * | Kalculate on FB <https://www.facebook.com/businessdesktop>*
>
> *Koha Online Demo <http://koha.openlx.com>  |  DSpace Online Demo
> <http://dspace.openlx.com:8080/jspui>*
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
[hidden email]
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
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Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

Bob Birchall @ Calyx
In reply to this post by Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate
There we go again - 'official list' as if it has some status other than
as a yellow pages directory. I suspect the noise from the sub-continent
particularly will increase, whilst very little comes back to the
project. I think we should just get rid of that page from the website.
My 2 cents,
Bob Birchall
Calyx

On 09/08/17 04:26, Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate wrote:

> Well Chris Cormack,  It will be very interesting to note that a Koha
> Service Provider with over 400 Libraries to his credit, will be removed
> from the official list, because he sent a mail to a Library informing about
> his Koha Services.
>
> It will be an interesting standard to be fixed for this community and to be
> watched closely by many in the future.
>
> It is interesting to note that while you do not rightly want to be part of
> the trouble between some service providers, you seem to be influenced by
> some of them. I hope I will be proven wrong on this point, which seems to
> be clear conclusion from what you wrote.
>
> *By the way, how do we decide that my mail to a library, a direct mail sent
> to them, can be termed as a spam ?*
>
> *Since when, did people start talking of their services only when someone
> asks for them ?*
>
> I trust the common sense will prevail and all of us will remain promoting
> Koha and not the fears of some people around here.
>
> By the way, my request for being listed as a Koha service provider
> (BestBook Buddies.com) is still not approved and I have resent the request
> today.
>
> Sudhir Gandotra
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 11:42 PM, Chris Cormack <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Just a quick note, unsolicited emails, or spam as it is commonly known is
>> indeed a crime in some jurisdictions. And in almost every one it is against
>> convention.
>>
>> I'm not going to respond to the rest of your email which reads as a
>> personal fight between you and other Indian Koha developers/companies.
>> Please leave this kind of email off the list in future.
>>
>> And if you plan to continue to send unsolicited emails to people then I
>> think the request to remove the listing should stand
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On 9 August 2017 5:58:37 AM NZST, "Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate" <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Dear Jonathan Druart,
>>>
>>> I am rather surprised to note this mail.
>>>
>>> The only mail that I see from you to me was as below :
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]>
>>> May 17
>>> to koha
>>>
>>> Dear Sudhir Gandotra,
>>>
>>> You are receiving this email because you are listed as a paid support
>>> company on the Koha community website (https://koha-community.org/su
>>> pport/paid-support).
>>>
>>> We are updating the list of paid support companies for Koha on our
>>> community website. Please, after reading this email, either hit reply or
>>> complete the form mentioned below to confirm you are still an active
>>> support company.
>>>
>>> The next development cycle of Koha (17.11) is going to start before the
>>> month of May is out.
>>> Over the next 6 months we will be building the latest, even more awesome,
>>> release of Koha.  We strongly believe that having everybody involved is
>>> fundamental to achieving this.
>>>
>>> We want to build a task force and for that, we need to know who can commit
>>> time and effort that we can count on, in order to estimate the goals we can
>>> reach.
>>> Even if you have never been involved in the Koha community but are using
>>> Koha, you can help us by committing just a few hours each month:
>>> library workers or support companies can contribute massively by providing
>>> feedback, testing patches, contributing to the documentation or by getting
>>> involved in other specific tasks. Even if you do not know how to code you
>>> can help shape the next release and improve Koha.
>>> If you want to help, or if you have specific requests for this release,
>>> please let us know by completing this form:
>>>
>>>   https://framaforms.org/ready-to-help-the-koha-community-1493918217 <
>>> Just a couple of hours per month dedicated to the project is a huge help!
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Jonathan Druart on behalf of the Koha community
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> I have not replied to it, as I am usually been travelling extensively for
>>> the last 12 months, but, within our team, we are discussing as to how we
>>> can take this forward and start contributing to the Koha community in
>>> future, starting in next few months.
>>>
>>> *On the other hand, I would like to share the following with you :*
>>>
>>>
>>> As duly acknowledged by the Koha community here, we are the entity (then
>>> known as Indserve Infotech Pvt. Ltd.) that introduced Koha in India with
>>> the first commercially done Koha implementation at Delhi Pubic Library, in
>>> 2007-08, for which I can show you the formal purchase order also.
>>> Its another story that our trainee-engineer, who was trained by us on this
>>> project, left us, cheated us, took away the clients we were negotiating and
>>> harmed our work seriously, went to another company and is active on Koha
>>> even now.
>>> We were forced to lie low for a while (due to illegal actions of a large
>>> MNC against us) and restarted our activities in a big way again in 2010,
>>> and after creating over 165 clients across 15 countries, have now taken
>>> Koha to new level, whereby we are offering the complete services free of
>>> cost and this is taking us places.
>>>
>>> The amount of publicity, growth and expansion that we have done with Koha
>>> is tremendous when you see the number of clients, the spread of these
>>> clients, and their support to us because of un-breaking services.
>>>
>>> I am aware that people like Vinod Mishra and some others are quiet jealous
>>> of us and now with these free services, they are, possibly, afraid of
>>> losing their business. And, because of this, they find all kinds of excuses
>>> of speaking against us with clients and here also on the list.
>>>
>>> I see no reason for deleting our name, because, caused by such negative
>>> people, it will only give bad name to the whole of community, a cause to
>>> which we have given our full support form the very beginning. And,
>>> moreover, we have done nothing against Koha. Rather, with the number of
>>> libraries to our credit, we are among the biggest providers of Koha
>>> services.
>>>
>>> To promote our services, we do send mails to libraries and in that process,
>>> the mail went to mycpl.org also. Owen Leonard felt bad about it, wrote to
>>> me, and I replied to him with my apologies, as our intentions have solely
>>> been to promote Koha. However, there is no law or convention that says that
>>> a Koha service provider cannot send promotional mails to libraries. Please
>>> help me understand this point better, if I am missing something.
>>>
>>> I will not speak against any of them, as, that is neither my style, nor am
>>> I person driven by fears.
>>>
>>> Being a Humanist, I am aware that I need to contribute to the good of this
>>> world, that has given me my life and everything else that I have and I am
>>> very happy contributing to Linux and Koha in my own way.
>>> *I have not done much, with my more than 400 Libraries to my credit, I
>>> wonder if this is negligible.*
>>>
>>>
>>> And, for that "crime" (if that's how these people will prefer to term it),
>>> as its being labelled by some ignorant ones, if you think Koha community
>>> will be happier without me on the list, let's set the new standards.
>>>
>>> I am quiet aware that Koha is a community thing and fortunately not a
>>> personal property of anyone, and due to that fact alone, it is important,
>>> that, as a Community, we set the highest standards, which are not driven by
>>> the fears of a few ignorant ones, but by the bold-selfless actions of those
>>> who do for the society.
>>>
>>> I look forward to hearing from you on this.
>>>
>>> I assure you that, very soon, you will find me increasingly active on the
>>> list.
>>>
>>> By the way, my request of adding my new company "Best Book Buddies" to the
>>> list of service providers is pending for around a year.
>>>
>>> Sudhir Gandotra
>>> www.bestbookbuddies.com
>>> +91-9810120918
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Jonathan Druart <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>   I have sent them several emails and they never answered. They are already
>>>>   on my list of companies to remove from the list.
>>>>
>>>>   Cheers,
>>>>   Jonathan
>>>>
>>>>   On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 at 08:56 Owen Leonard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   Has anyone else received spam from "BestBookBuddies   - an Initiative
>>>>>   of: OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd." ? They recently spammed me and
>>>>>   everyone else on my library's contact page.
>>>>>
>>>>>   If it were up to me they would be removed from the list of paid
>>>>>   support providers, but I don't think the rules explicitly forbid
>>>>>   sending spam.
>>>>>
>>>>>    -- Owen
>>>>>
>>>>>   --
>>>>>   Web Developer
>>>>>   Athens County Public Libraries
>>>>>   http://www.myacpl.org
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>   Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>>>>>   [hidden email]
>>>>>   https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>   Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>>>>   [hidden email]
>>>>   https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>
>

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Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

Chris Cormack-6
Hi Bob

I too would happily see the paid support listings disappear from the
koha-community.org website.

Chris

On 9 August 2017 at 12:21, Bob Birchall <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There we go again - 'official list' as if it has some status other than as a
> yellow pages directory. I suspect the noise from the sub-continent
> particularly will increase, whilst very little comes back to the project. I
> think we should just get rid of that page from the website.
> My 2 cents,
> Bob Birchall
> Calyx
>
>
> On 09/08/17 04:26, Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate wrote:
>>
>> Well Chris Cormack,  It will be very interesting to note that a Koha
>> Service Provider with over 400 Libraries to his credit, will be removed
>> from the official list, because he sent a mail to a Library informing
>> about
>> his Koha Services.
>>
>> It will be an interesting standard to be fixed for this community and to
>> be
>> watched closely by many in the future.
>>
>> It is interesting to note that while you do not rightly want to be part of
>> the trouble between some service providers, you seem to be influenced by
>> some of them. I hope I will be proven wrong on this point, which seems to
>> be clear conclusion from what you wrote.
>>
>> *By the way, how do we decide that my mail to a library, a direct mail
>> sent
>> to them, can be termed as a spam ?*
>>
>> *Since when, did people start talking of their services only when someone
>> asks for them ?*
>>
>> I trust the common sense will prevail and all of us will remain promoting
>> Koha and not the fears of some people around here.
>>
>> By the way, my request for being listed as a Koha service provider
>> (BestBook Buddies.com) is still not approved and I have resent the request
>> today.
>>
>> Sudhir Gandotra
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 11:42 PM, Chris Cormack <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just a quick note, unsolicited emails, or spam as it is commonly known is
>>> indeed a crime in some jurisdictions. And in almost every one it is
>>> against
>>> convention.
>>>
>>> I'm not going to respond to the rest of your email which reads as a
>>> personal fight between you and other Indian Koha developers/companies.
>>> Please leave this kind of email off the list in future.
>>>
>>> And if you plan to continue to send unsolicited emails to people then I
>>> think the request to remove the listing should stand
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> On 9 August 2017 5:58:37 AM NZST, "Sudhir Gandotra @ Kalculate" <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Jonathan Druart,
>>>>
>>>> I am rather surprised to note this mail.
>>>>
>>>> The only mail that I see from you to me was as below :
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]>
>>>> May 17
>>>> to koha
>>>>
>>>> Dear Sudhir Gandotra,
>>>>
>>>> You are receiving this email because you are listed as a paid support
>>>> company on the Koha community website (https://koha-community.org/su
>>>> pport/paid-support).
>>>>
>>>> We are updating the list of paid support companies for Koha on our
>>>> community website. Please, after reading this email, either hit reply or
>>>> complete the form mentioned below to confirm you are still an active
>>>> support company.
>>>>
>>>> The next development cycle of Koha (17.11) is going to start before the
>>>> month of May is out.
>>>> Over the next 6 months we will be building the latest, even more
>>>> awesome,
>>>> release of Koha.  We strongly believe that having everybody involved is
>>>> fundamental to achieving this.
>>>>
>>>> We want to build a task force and for that, we need to know who can
>>>> commit
>>>> time and effort that we can count on, in order to estimate the goals we
>>>> can
>>>> reach.
>>>> Even if you have never been involved in the Koha community but are using
>>>> Koha, you can help us by committing just a few hours each month:
>>>> library workers or support companies can contribute massively by
>>>> providing
>>>> feedback, testing patches, contributing to the documentation or by
>>>> getting
>>>> involved in other specific tasks. Even if you do not know how to code
>>>> you
>>>> can help shape the next release and improve Koha.
>>>> If you want to help, or if you have specific requests for this release,
>>>> please let us know by completing this form:
>>>>
>>>>   https://framaforms.org/ready-to-help-the-koha-community-1493918217 <
>>>> Just a couple of hours per month dedicated to the project is a huge
>>>> help!
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Jonathan Druart on behalf of the Koha community
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have not replied to it, as I am usually been travelling extensively
>>>> for
>>>> the last 12 months, but, within our team, we are discussing as to how we
>>>> can take this forward and start contributing to the Koha community in
>>>> future, starting in next few months.
>>>>
>>>> *On the other hand, I would like to share the following with you :*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As duly acknowledged by the Koha community here, we are the entity (then
>>>> known as Indserve Infotech Pvt. Ltd.) that introduced Koha in India with
>>>> the first commercially done Koha implementation at Delhi Pubic Library,
>>>> in
>>>> 2007-08, for which I can show you the formal purchase order also.
>>>> Its another story that our trainee-engineer, who was trained by us on
>>>> this
>>>> project, left us, cheated us, took away the clients we were negotiating
>>>> and
>>>> harmed our work seriously, went to another company and is active on Koha
>>>> even now.
>>>> We were forced to lie low for a while (due to illegal actions of a large
>>>> MNC against us) and restarted our activities in a big way again in 2010,
>>>> and after creating over 165 clients across 15 countries, have now taken
>>>> Koha to new level, whereby we are offering the complete services free of
>>>> cost and this is taking us places.
>>>>
>>>> The amount of publicity, growth and expansion that we have done with
>>>> Koha
>>>> is tremendous when you see the number of clients, the spread of these
>>>> clients, and their support to us because of un-breaking services.
>>>>
>>>> I am aware that people like Vinod Mishra and some others are quiet
>>>> jealous
>>>> of us and now with these free services, they are, possibly, afraid of
>>>> losing their business. And, because of this, they find all kinds of
>>>> excuses
>>>> of speaking against us with clients and here also on the list.
>>>>
>>>> I see no reason for deleting our name, because, caused by such negative
>>>> people, it will only give bad name to the whole of community, a cause to
>>>> which we have given our full support form the very beginning. And,
>>>> moreover, we have done nothing against Koha. Rather, with the number of
>>>> libraries to our credit, we are among the biggest providers of Koha
>>>> services.
>>>>
>>>> To promote our services, we do send mails to libraries and in that
>>>> process,
>>>> the mail went to mycpl.org also. Owen Leonard felt bad about it, wrote
>>>> to
>>>> me, and I replied to him with my apologies, as our intentions have
>>>> solely
>>>> been to promote Koha. However, there is no law or convention that says
>>>> that
>>>> a Koha service provider cannot send promotional mails to libraries.
>>>> Please
>>>> help me understand this point better, if I am missing something.
>>>>
>>>> I will not speak against any of them, as, that is neither my style, nor
>>>> am
>>>> I person driven by fears.
>>>>
>>>> Being a Humanist, I am aware that I need to contribute to the good of
>>>> this
>>>> world, that has given me my life and everything else that I have and I
>>>> am
>>>> very happy contributing to Linux and Koha in my own way.
>>>> *I have not done much, with my more than 400 Libraries to my credit, I
>>>> wonder if this is negligible.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And, for that "crime" (if that's how these people will prefer to term
>>>> it),
>>>> as its being labelled by some ignorant ones, if you think Koha community
>>>> will be happier without me on the list, let's set the new standards.
>>>>
>>>> I am quiet aware that Koha is a community thing and fortunately not a
>>>> personal property of anyone, and due to that fact alone, it is
>>>> important,
>>>> that, as a Community, we set the highest standards, which are not driven
>>>> by
>>>> the fears of a few ignorant ones, but by the bold-selfless actions of
>>>> those
>>>> who do for the society.
>>>>
>>>> I look forward to hearing from you on this.
>>>>
>>>> I assure you that, very soon, you will find me increasingly active on
>>>> the
>>>> list.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, my request of adding my new company "Best Book Buddies" to
>>>> the
>>>> list of service providers is pending for around a year.
>>>>
>>>> Sudhir Gandotra
>>>> www.bestbookbuddies.com
>>>> +91-9810120918
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Jonathan Druart <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   I have sent them several emails and they never answered. They are
>>>> already
>>>>>
>>>>>   on my list of companies to remove from the list.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Cheers,
>>>>>   Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>>   On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 at 08:56 Owen Leonard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Has anyone else received spam from "BestBookBuddies   - an Initiative
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   of: OpenLX Technologies Pvt. Ltd." ? They recently spammed me and
>>>>>>   everyone else on my library's contact page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   If it were up to me they would be removed from the list of paid
>>>>>>   support providers, but I don't think the rules explicitly forbid
>>>>>>   sending spam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    -- Owen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   --
>>>>>>   Web Developer
>>>>>>   Athens County Public Libraries
>>>>>>   http://www.myacpl.org
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>>>>>>   [hidden email]
>>>>>>   https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>   Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>>>>>   [hidden email]
>>>>>   https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
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Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

Nathan Curulla
In reply to this post by Owen Leonard-4
Greetings all,

I personally agree that work needs to be done on this list. Maybe we should change the listing to “contributing support companies” or something like that. If you want to get listed in the Koha Yellow Pages, pony up some time on bug testing, dev submittals etc.. Invest in the community and you can put your company on the community site. We can even put up a disclaimer stating that there are many more companies out there, these are just the ones that give back in a significant way… This will encourage participation and reward those who already participate (which includes the vast majority of those already on the list).

In my humble opinion, giving Koha services away for free in order to get a foot in the door to sell your primary offering (such as books) does not count as a contribution to the community. In fact, if the system is not properly supported because it is used as a peripheral marketing technique, it could end up hurting the community, as poor support translates into poor software in the eyes of the users. Not saying this is the case here, just some hypothetical contemplation :)


> Nathan A. Curulla
> Owner, CRO
> ByWater Solutions



> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 10:21:44 +1000
> From: Bob Birchall <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Koha] Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> There we go again - 'official list' as if it has some status other than
> as a yellow pages directory. I suspect the noise from the sub-continent
> particularly will increase, whilst very little comes back to the
> project. I think we should just get rid of that page from the website.
> My 2 cents,
> Bob Birchall
> Calyx
>
>
> *************************************

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Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX)

Owen Leonard-4
> Maybe we should change the listing to “contributing support companies” or something like that.

I think that's an interesting idea, but the larger problem remains:
There will always be contention around how the support companies list
is made, no matter what. I think we've done pretty well with the very
basic requirements we've set for for listing. I'm inclined to either
stick with it or, if it's agreed that the current system is too
contentious, eliminate it altogether.

The immediate question, about a listing for BestBookBuddies, is best
answered as it already was: It would be a duplicate listing of OpenLX
and should be rejected.

 -- Owen

--
Web Developer
Athens County Public Libraries
http://www.myacpl.org
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How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

Mark Tompsett
Greetings,

Nathan A. Curulla suggested:
> Maybe we should change the listing to “contributing support companies” or
> something like that.

While I think that is a good idea, and then companies without community
participation get removed, the problem still remains: people don't read.
We've put a nice disclaimer that this is not an official list and has no
official seal of approval meaning to the list, and yet people still use it
that way. It is impossible to educate people who refuse to read, even though
the preamble write up is a rather good explanation of how to look for a Koha
support provider. As such, the only reasonable course of action is to delete
the list, otherwise it will continue to be used that way, no matter what we
put on the page(s).


Owen Leonard wrote:
> It would be a duplicate listing ... and should be rejected.

Who determines it is a duplicate listing? Because last time I looked some
other entries looked like duplicates to me, much like OpenLX/BBB. And
cleaning up duplicates is a pain. Yet another reason to just delete the list
already.

GPML,
Mark Tompsett

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Re: How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

Jonathan Druart
Just to cross the topics, we already had this discussion earlier:
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2015-July/043138.html
"Proposal to remove the 'Paid support' list"

On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 at 12:17 Mark Tompsett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> Nathan A. Curulla suggested:
> > Maybe we should change the listing to “contributing support companies” or
> > something like that.
>
> While I think that is a good idea, and then companies without community
> participation get removed, the problem still remains: people don't read.
> We've put a nice disclaimer that this is not an official list and has no
> official seal of approval meaning to the list, and yet people still use it
> that way. It is impossible to educate people who refuse to read, even
> though
> the preamble write up is a rather good explanation of how to look for a
> Koha
> support provider. As such, the only reasonable course of action is to
> delete
> the list, otherwise it will continue to be used that way, no matter what we
> put on the page(s).
>
>
> Owen Leonard wrote:
> > It would be a duplicate listing ... and should be rejected.
>
> Who determines it is a duplicate listing? Because last time I looked some
> other entries looked like duplicates to me, much like OpenLX/BBB. And
> cleaning up duplicates is a pain. Yet another reason to just delete the
> list
> already.
>
> GPML,
> Mark Tompsett
>
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
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Re: How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

BWS Johnson-2
In reply to this post by Mark Tompsett
Kia ora!
     I still hold the firm opinion that deleting the list is a cop out. The listing is one of the best ways that new Libraries find support if they are reluctant to do things themselves. Folks might want to think about linking Hea to this page so that people that are considering Koha can find like minded institutions nearby. It would be awesome if there were some way for existing libraries to signal that they are open to providing feedback about vendors.

     The suggested name change might help, and I would support that. I would also support removing any spammers.
     I feel strongly that Liz improved on the old list substantially.

     It is very easy for companies that are now happily established to want to scrap this list. That action punishes startups and the optics are trash. Pulling the ladder up after yourself is not attractive.
Cheers,Brooke
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Re: How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

Chris Cormack-7
* BWS Johnson ([hidden email]) wrote:
>Kia ora!
>     I still hold the firm opinion that deleting the list is a cop out. The listing is one of the best ways that new Libraries find support if they are reluctant to do things themselves. Folks might want to think about linking Hea to this page so that people that are considering Koha can find like minded institutions nearby. It would be awesome if there were some way for existing libraries to signal that they are open to providing feedback about vendors.
>
I think in that case, someone else could volunteer (yourself perhaps)
to take this 'cop out' off the people who currently have to deal with
the multiple offlist emails about it. And maintain the list, maybe on the wiki
where it can be done by anyone.


>     The suggested name change might help, and I would support that. I would also support removing any spammers.
>     I feel strongly that Liz improved on the old list substantially.
>
>     It is very easy for companies that are now happily established to want to scrap this list. That action punishes startups and the optics are trash. Pulling the ladder up after yourself is not attractive.

I find this remark quite offensive. Just FYI. In case you didn't intend
it to be.

Chris

>Cheers,Brooke
>_______________________________________________
>Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
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PO Box 11-053, Manners St, Wellington 6142, New Zealand

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Re: How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

vinod mishra
In reply to this post by Mark Tompsett
I think we can make a parameter like the company who have submitted at
least five patch/new code for major active release oldoldstable, oldstable
and stable will be only listed. For example if a company has five
code/patch in 16.5 than he may be listed continuously up-to 17.5 once 17.11
will release and there is no contribution in 16.11 than they may be delist.

Above is only one parameter but someone have to monitor this continuously
to update the list, however range of version can be increased, by doing so
they will be encouraged to contribute continuously if they do not want to
die from list.


With Regards,

Vinod Kumar Mishra,
Assistant Librarian,
Biju Patnaik Central Library (BPCL),
NIT Rourkela,
Sundergadh-769008,
Odisha,
India.
Mob:91+9439420860
Website: http://mishravk.com/
ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-4666-7874

*"Spiritual relationship is far more precious than physical. Physical
relationship divorced from spiritual is body without soul" -- Mahatma
Gandhi*

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Mark Tompsett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> Nathan A. Curulla suggested:
> > Maybe we should change the listing to “contributing support companies” or
> > something like that.
>
> While I think that is a good idea, and then companies without community
> participation get removed, the problem still remains: people don't read.
> We've put a nice disclaimer that this is not an official list and has no
> official seal of approval meaning to the list, and yet people still use it
> that way. It is impossible to educate people who refuse to read, even
> though
> the preamble write up is a rather good explanation of how to look for a
> Koha
> support provider. As such, the only reasonable course of action is to
> delete
> the list, otherwise it will continue to be used that way, no matter what we
> put on the page(s).
>
>
> Owen Leonard wrote:
> > It would be a duplicate listing ... and should be rejected.
>
> Who determines it is a duplicate listing? Because last time I looked some
> other entries looked like duplicates to me, much like OpenLX/BBB. And
> cleaning up duplicates is a pain. Yet another reason to just delete the
> list
> already.
>
> GPML,
> Mark Tompsett
>
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
[hidden email]
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
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Re: How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

Indranil Das Gupta
Vinod:

Koha like most successful FOSS projects, work on a "honour" system where
everyone is expected to do the right thing. We do have a "code-of-conduct"
but that is mostly about diversity and other issues.

Further, everyone who maintains the website do so as volunteers. Expecting
them to start acting as police is probably not the best of ideas. I know
for a fact that Liz stopped volunteering on the PAID provider section
maintenance as she was sick of dealing with it.

The "X" no. of patch criteria does not solve anything IMHO for several
reasons. Patches are not linear entities. Often they get to be completed
only with active contribution of others. Most often, the patches are
credited to individuals and not the companies they represent. So what
happens when an employee dev leave and say joins another Koha service
provider? Who will get the credits? It may sound easy, but its not so
legally. Then how does a patch say one that permanently addresses the
auto-increment issue compare against 5 trivial string patch?

Basically, do we become bureaucrats OR do we write Koha?

Just my 2c

-Indranil
On Aug 10, 2017 3:45 PM, "vinod mishra" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think we can make a parameter like the company who have submitted at
> least five patch/new code for major active release oldoldstable, oldstable
> and stable will be only listed. For example if a company has five
> code/patch in 16.5 than he may be listed continuously up-to 17.5 once 17.11
> will release and there is no contribution in 16.11 than they may be delist.
>
> Above is only one parameter but someone have to monitor this continuously
> to update the list, however range of version can be increased, by doing so
> they will be encouraged to contribute continuously if they do not want to
> die from list.
>
>
> With Regards,
>
> Vinod Kumar Mishra,
> Assistant Librarian,
> Biju Patnaik Central Library (BPCL),
> NIT Rourkela,
> Sundergadh-769008,
> Odisha,
> India.
> Mob:91+9439420860
> Website: http://mishravk.com/
> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-4666-7874
>
> *"Spiritual relationship is far more precious than physical. Physical
> relationship divorced from spiritual is body without soul" -- Mahatma
> Gandhi*
>
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Mark Tompsett <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Nathan A. Curulla suggested:
> > > Maybe we should change the listing to “contributing support companies”
> or
> > > something like that.
> >
> > While I think that is a good idea, and then companies without community
> > participation get removed, the problem still remains: people don't read.
> > We've put a nice disclaimer that this is not an official list and has no
> > official seal of approval meaning to the list, and yet people still use
> it
> > that way. It is impossible to educate people who refuse to read, even
> > though
> > the preamble write up is a rather good explanation of how to look for a
> > Koha
> > support provider. As such, the only reasonable course of action is to
> > delete
> > the list, otherwise it will continue to be used that way, no matter what
> we
> > put on the page(s).
> >
> >
> > Owen Leonard wrote:
> > > It would be a duplicate listing ... and should be rejected.
> >
> > Who determines it is a duplicate listing? Because last time I looked some
> > other entries looked like duplicates to me, much like OpenLX/BBB. And
> > cleaning up duplicates is a pain. Yet another reason to just delete the
> > list
> > already.
> >
> > GPML,
> > Mark Tompsett
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
[hidden email]
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
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Re: How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

Michael Kuhn
In reply to this post by vinod mishra
Hi


> I think we can make a parameter like the company who have submitted at
> least five patch/new code for major active release oldoldstable, oldstable
> and stable will be only listed. For example if a company has five
> code/patch in 16.5 than he may be listed continuously up-to 17.5 once 17.11
> will release and there is no contribution in 16.11 than they may be delist.


This means everything else except writing patches is not considered as
"help".

Best wishes: Michael
--
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Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz
T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E [hidden email] · W www.adminkuhn.ch
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Re: How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

Indranil Das Gupta
For the longest time, I resisted getting listed on the PAID support
providers list because of personal reasons. But then I started running up
against RFPs that made listing there a mandatory qualification point for
placing a bid. Now that my outfit is there for quite some time, I can
honestly tell that not a *single* piece of work has landed from being
listed there. Sure there has been a few enquiries but that's the extent of
if.

The time when Koha needed the visibility of local support has largely
passed, at least in India where Koha has emerged as the defacto choice. On
the other hand, Indian service providers on that list make up ~25% (or
more) of the global listing in number, yet the number of contributions,
including patches have probably been the least. Most are not even active in
the community.

So I do not consider deletion of the page to do anyone any major
disservice, since we can't do anything about false claims - yes, several of
the Indian providers listed make tall claims of community contribution and
show the listing as being the proof. Surprise!!! No one reads the
disclaimers! :D

cheers
indranil

--
Indranil Das Gupta
L2C2 Technologies

Phone : +91-98300-20971
WWW  : http://www.l2c2.co.in
Blog    : http://blog.l2c2.co.in
IRC     : indradg on irc://irc.freenode.net
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Re: How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

BWS Johnson-2
In reply to this post by Indranil Das Gupta
Salvete!

     Mashing some stuff up here, but I feel like we need a vote on this either over the listserv or at the next IRC General Sep 6.


>>
Further, everyone who maintains the website do so as volunteers. Expecting
them to start acting as police is probably not the best of ideas. I know
for a fact that Liz stopped volunteering on the PAID provider section
maintenance as she was sick of dealing with it.

>>

     I'm happy to serve as the gatekeeper for this page for a year.


     I'm not for a patch wall. Carrots, not sticks.

>>
Basically, do we become bureaucrats OR do we write Koha?

>>


     It doesn't have to be an either or decision. You choose to write code, which is great. When developers think "Oh yuck, I can be coding instead" Librarians should step up.

Cheers,
Brooke
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Re: How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

Indranil Das Gupta
Hi,

On Aug 10, 2017 5:47 PM, "BWS Johnson" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>      Mashing some stuff up here, but I feel like we need a vote on this
either over the listserv or at the next IRC General Sep 6.

+1

>      I'm not for a patch wall. Carrots, not sticks.

I'm afraid the metaphor "patch wall" escapes me. Can you pls elaborate?

>> Basically, do we become bureaucrats OR do we write Koha?
>
>      It doesn't have to be an either or decision. You choose to write
code, which is great. When developers think "Oh yuck, I can be coding
instead" Librarians should step up.

Not to nitpick, but I used "write" as a metaphor for all activities around
Koha, given that the written word is our primary tool - whether to answer
user queries, write a blog about a cool new feature, improve the wiki and
manual, discuss and decide new spec (e.g. the MARC framework debate we are
having on the devel list that needs inputs and approval from librarians
even more than from the devs) and finally of course there's writing the
code.

A dev who simply says "Yuck! I could be coding instead" is IMHO a poor one
who has basically stopped listening to the users and the eco-system they
are in.

Cheers
Indranil

> Cheers,
> Brooke
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Re: How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

Jonathan Druart
In reply to this post by vinod mishra
Vinod,

This already exists and is auto-generated for each release.
For 17.05, https://koha-community.org/koha-17-05-released
But, as said previously by others, 1 != 1 and there are much more than just
writing patches in a community daily tasks.

Regards,
Jonathan

On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 at 07:15 vinod mishra <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think we can make a parameter like the company who have submitted at
> least five patch/new code for major active release oldoldstable, oldstable
> and stable will be only listed. For example if a company has five
> code/patch in 16.5 than he may be listed continuously up-to 17.5 once 17.11
> will release and there is no contribution in 16.11 than they may be delist.
>
> Above is only one parameter but someone have to monitor this continuously
> to update the list, however range of version can be increased, by doing so
> they will be encouraged to contribute continuously if they do not want to
> die from list.
>
>
> With Regards,
>
> Vinod Kumar Mishra,
> Assistant Librarian,
> Biju Patnaik Central Library (BPCL),
> NIT Rourkela,
> Sundergadh-769008,
> Odisha,
> India.
> Mob:91+9439420860
> Website: http://mishravk.com/
> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-4666-7874
>
> *"Spiritual relationship is far more precious than physical. Physical
> relationship divorced from spiritual is body without soul" -- Mahatma
> Gandhi*
>
> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Mark Tompsett <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Nathan A. Curulla suggested:
> > > Maybe we should change the listing to “contributing support companies”
> or
> > > something like that.
> >
> > While I think that is a good idea, and then companies without community
> > participation get removed, the problem still remains: people don't read.
> > We've put a nice disclaimer that this is not an official list and has no
> > official seal of approval meaning to the list, and yet people still use
> it
> > that way. It is impossible to educate people who refuse to read, even
> > though
> > the preamble write up is a rather good explanation of how to look for a
> > Koha
> > support provider. As such, the only reasonable course of action is to
> > delete
> > the list, otherwise it will continue to be used that way, no matter what
> we
> > put on the page(s).
> >
> >
> > Owen Leonard wrote:
> > > It would be a duplicate listing ... and should be rejected.
> >
> > Who determines it is a duplicate listing? Because last time I looked some
> > other entries looked like duplicates to me, much like OpenLX/BBB. And
> > cleaning up duplicates is a pain. Yet another reason to just delete the
> > list
> > already.
> >
> > GPML,
> > Mark Tompsett
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
_______________________________________________
Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
[hidden email]
https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
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Re: How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

Chris Cormack-7
Hi All

A proposal, for voting on.
1/ make the listing criteria more stringent + move the list off the main site to its own thing.

Or we just make it more official and increase all the problems.

So move it off the site and make it 'the community managed list'. Or some other name. But make it its own thing clearly maintained by volunteers, not part of the main site and in no way official at all.

Chris

On 11 August 2017 3:26:44 AM NZST, Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Vinod,
>
>This already exists and is auto-generated for each release.
>For 17.05, https://koha-community.org/koha-17-05-released
>But, as said previously by others, 1 != 1 and there are much more than
>just
>writing patches in a community daily tasks.
>
>Regards,
>Jonathan
>
>On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 at 07:15 vinod mishra <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I think we can make a parameter like the company who have submitted
>at
>> least five patch/new code for major active release oldoldstable,
>oldstable
>> and stable will be only listed. For example if a company has five
>> code/patch in 16.5 than he may be listed continuously up-to 17.5 once
>17.11
>> will release and there is no contribution in 16.11 than they may be
>delist.
>>
>> Above is only one parameter but someone have to monitor this
>continuously
>> to update the list, however range of version can be increased, by
>doing so
>> they will be encouraged to contribute continuously if they do not
>want to
>> die from list.
>>
>>
>> With Regards,
>>
>> Vinod Kumar Mishra,
>> Assistant Librarian,
>> Biju Patnaik Central Library (BPCL),
>> NIT Rourkela,
>> Sundergadh-769008,
>> Odisha,
>> India.
>> Mob:91+9439420860
>> Website: http://mishravk.com/
>> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-4666-7874
>>
>> *"Spiritual relationship is far more precious than physical. Physical
>> relationship divorced from spiritual is body without soul" -- Mahatma
>> Gandhi*
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Mark Tompsett <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Greetings,
>> >
>> > Nathan A. Curulla suggested:
>> > > Maybe we should change the listing to “contributing support
>companies”
>> or
>> > > something like that.
>> >
>> > While I think that is a good idea, and then companies without
>community
>> > participation get removed, the problem still remains: people don't
>read.
>> > We've put a nice disclaimer that this is not an official list and
>has no
>> > official seal of approval meaning to the list, and yet people still
>use
>> it
>> > that way. It is impossible to educate people who refuse to read,
>even
>> > though
>> > the preamble write up is a rather good explanation of how to look
>for a
>> > Koha
>> > support provider. As such, the only reasonable course of action is
>to
>> > delete
>> > the list, otherwise it will continue to be used that way, no matter
>what
>> we
>> > put on the page(s).
>> >
>> >
>> > Owen Leonard wrote:
>> > > It would be a duplicate listing ... and should be rejected.
>> >
>> > Who determines it is a duplicate listing? Because last time I
>looked some
>> > other entries looked like duplicates to me, much like OpenLX/BBB.
>And
>> > cleaning up duplicates is a pain. Yet another reason to just delete
>the
>> > list
>> > already.
>> >
>> > GPML,
>> > Mark Tompsett
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
>[hidden email]
>https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

Diedre Conkling
I mostly just read this list but I thought I'd comment on this subject.  I
think this should be put to a vote.  I think Chris has spelled out three
good categories.  It might be that there are one or two more categories.
Just add those suggestions in the next day or two and then put out a poll.



On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 12:34 PM Chris Cormack <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi All
>
> A proposal, for voting on.
> 1/ make the listing criteria more stringent + move the list off the main
> site to its own thing.
>
> Or we just make it more official and increase all the problems.
>
> So move it off the site and make it 'the community managed list'. Or some
> other name. But make it its own thing clearly maintained by volunteers, not
> part of the main site and in no way official at all.
>
> Chris
>
> On 11 August 2017 3:26:44 AM NZST, Jonathan Druart <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >Vinod,
> >
> >This already exists and is auto-generated for each release.
> >For 17.05, https://koha-community.org/koha-17-05-released
> >But, as said previously by others, 1 != 1 and there are much more than
> >just
> >writing patches in a community daily tasks.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Jonathan
> >
> >On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 at 07:15 vinod mishra <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> I think we can make a parameter like the company who have submitted
> >at
> >> least five patch/new code for major active release oldoldstable,
> >oldstable
> >> and stable will be only listed. For example if a company has five
> >> code/patch in 16.5 than he may be listed continuously up-to 17.5 once
> >17.11
> >> will release and there is no contribution in 16.11 than they may be
> >delist.
> >>
> >> Above is only one parameter but someone have to monitor this
> >continuously
> >> to update the list, however range of version can be increased, by
> >doing so
> >> they will be encouraged to contribute continuously if they do not
> >want to
> >> die from list.
> >>
> >>
> >> With Regards,
> >>
> >> Vinod Kumar Mishra,
> >> Assistant Librarian,
> >> Biju Patnaik Central Library (BPCL),
> >> NIT Rourkela,
> >> Sundergadh-769008,
> >> Odisha,
> >> India.
> >> Mob:91+9439420860
> >> Website: http://mishravk.com/
> >> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-4666-7874
> >>
> >> *"Spiritual relationship is far more precious than physical. Physical
> >> relationship divorced from spiritual is body without soul" -- Mahatma
> >> Gandhi*
> >>
> >> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Mark Tompsett <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Greetings,
> >> >
> >> > Nathan A. Curulla suggested:
> >> > > Maybe we should change the listing to “contributing support
> >companies”
> >> or
> >> > > something like that.
> >> >
> >> > While I think that is a good idea, and then companies without
> >community
> >> > participation get removed, the problem still remains: people don't
> >read.
> >> > We've put a nice disclaimer that this is not an official list and
> >has no
> >> > official seal of approval meaning to the list, and yet people still
> >use
> >> it
> >> > that way. It is impossible to educate people who refuse to read,
> >even
> >> > though
> >> > the preamble write up is a rather good explanation of how to look
> >for a
> >> > Koha
> >> > support provider. As such, the only reasonable course of action is
> >to
> >> > delete
> >> > the list, otherwise it will continue to be used that way, no matter
> >what
> >> we
> >> > put on the page(s).
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Owen Leonard wrote:
> >> > > It would be a duplicate listing ... and should be rejected.
> >> >
> >> > Who determines it is a duplicate listing? Because last time I
> >looked some
> >> > other entries looked like duplicates to me, much like OpenLX/BBB.
> >And
> >> > cleaning up duplicates is a pain. Yet another reason to just delete
> >the
> >> > list
> >> > already.
> >> >
> >> > GPML,
> >> > Mark Tompsett
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> >[hidden email]
> >https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
--
*Diedre Conkling*




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*Home email: **[hidden email]* <[hidden email]>

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Re: How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

Indranil Das Gupta
In reply to this post by Chris Cormack-7
Hi

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 1:04 AM, Chris Cormack <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So move it off the site and make it 'the community managed list'. Or some other name. But make it its own thing clearly maintained by volunteers, not part of the main site and in no way official at all.

Anything on *.koha-community.org will be deemed "official" ;-)

indranil
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Re: How to handle the support providers list (was Re: Spam from BestBookBuddies (OpenLX))

Chris Cormack-7
* Indranil Das Gupta ([hidden email]) wrote:
>Hi
>
>On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 1:04 AM, Chris Cormack <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> So move it off the site and make it 'the community managed list'. Or some other name. But make it its own thing clearly maintained by volunteers, not part of the main site and in no way official at all.
>
>Anything on *.koha-community.org will be deemed "official" ;-)

Yep, right off that url is what I meant.

Because I see the list as something that works against small companies,
rather than for them. As your experience would attest Indranil.
Not being on the list is used as a weapon against companies.
So pretty much the exact opposite viewpoint to Brooke.

I see the list as just one more obstacle in a dev/vendor being able to
offer Koha support, rather than a help. Especially if as we are talking
about is making it harder to get listed.

This will be my last email on it, and I will be talking to my colleagues
about having our name removed, and I hope the whole list and all the
problems it causes for new developers goes away.

Chris

>
>indranil

--
Chris Cormack
Catalyst IT Ltd.
+64 4 803 2238
PO Box 11-053, Manners St, Wellington 6142, New Zealand

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