Re: Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

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Re: Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

Tom Obrien
Dear all,
Kindly advise me the better option for server space between Debian and
Ubuntu for koha  production server.
Regards
Tom
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Re: Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

Bob Birchall @ Calyx
Use whichever you prefer, as long as its the latest release.
Bob


On Fri, 26 Jul 2019 at 17:13, Tom Obrien <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear all,
> Kindly advise me the better option for server space between Debian and
> Ubuntu for koha  production server.
> Regards
> Tom
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list  http://koha-community.org
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
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Re: Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

Michael Kuhn
In reply to this post by Tom Obrien
Hi Tom

 > Kindly advise me the better option for server space between Debian and
 > Ubuntu for koha  production server.

According to
https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian#Debian_Packages_on_Koha the
following distributions are currently supported:

* Debian 8 (Jessie)
* Debian 9 (Stretch)
* Ubuntu 18.04 (Bionic)

Personally, I think I heard or anyway I feel like the developers are
usually using the newer Debian version (thus Debian 9) which results in
a smoother installation process. I'm not sure if it's true but it seems
to me even if Koha can be installed on Ubuntu or even some other Linux
distributions, it will often need some extra effort to make it work on them.

So if you're not absolutely depending on Ubuntu or any other
distribution I would always recommend Debian GNU/Linux. Also just
because Debian GNU/Linux is the base of Ubuntu anyway.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes: Michael
--
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Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz
T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E [hidden email] · W www.adminkuhn.ch
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Re: Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

King, Fred
In reply to this post by Tom Obrien
As far as Koha administration is concerned, what are the differences between Debian and Ubuntu? I know Ubuntu is said to be the easy version of Debian, but how does that translate into Koha?

Fred King
Medical Librarian, MedStar Washington Hospital Center
[hidden email]
202-877-6670
ORCID 0000-0001-5266-0279
MedStar Authors Catalog: http://medstarauthors.org

It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is interrupted by twelve dancing rabbits singing about toilet paper.
--Rod Serling

-----Original Message-----
From: Koha <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Michael Kuhn
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 4:42 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Koha] Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

 ** ATTENTION: This email originated from outside the MedStar network. ** DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

Hi Tom

 > Kindly advise me the better option for server space between Debian and  > Ubuntu for koha  production server.

According to
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wiki.koha-2Dcommunity.org_wiki_Debian-23Debian-5FPackages-5Fon-5FKoha&d=DwIGaQ&c=RvBXVp2Kc-itN3g6r3sN0QK_zL4whPpndVxj8-bJ04M&r=vKh6XwOmjyC51IkP1OfsdjQZoWT2vpi6VZl8El8EPRI&m=1ylcSBHLjSWg5rOt-ZicukRdZZTzcSLYSdlYqgcBrNA&s=zNTRxtNR-yY-7IQJkDRFpNMbPAEDwwyWYajdlOoHEpY&e=  the following distributions are currently supported:

* Debian 8 (Jessie)
* Debian 9 (Stretch)
* Ubuntu 18.04 (Bionic)

Personally, I think I heard or anyway I feel like the developers are usually using the newer Debian version (thus Debian 9) which results in a smoother installation process. I'm not sure if it's true but it seems to me even if Koha can be installed on Ubuntu or even some other Linux distributions, it will often need some extra effort to make it work on them.

So if you're not absolutely depending on Ubuntu or any other distribution I would always recommend Debian GNU/Linux. Also just because Debian GNU/Linux is the base of Ubuntu anyway.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes: Michael
--
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Re: Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

Dave Sherohman
In reply to this post by Michael Kuhn
On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 10:42:19AM +0200, Michael Kuhn wrote:

> According to
> https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian#Debian_Packages_on_Koha the
> following distributions are currently supported:
>
> * Debian 8 (Jessie)
> * Debian 9 (Stretch)
> * Ubuntu 18.04 (Bionic)
>
> Personally, I think I heard or anyway I feel like the developers are usually
> using the newer Debian version (thus Debian 9) which results in a smoother
> installation process.

Note that Debian 10 (buster) was released on July 6, so stretch is no
longer the latest stable version.  I would expect buster to support koha
(using the stretch packages if buster packages are not yet available)
with no problems, but I haven't tried it myself.


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Re: Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

Dave Sherohman
In reply to this post by King, Fred
On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 11:57:44AM +0000, King, Fred wrote:
> As far as Koha administration is concerned, what are the differences
> between Debian and Ubuntu? I know Ubuntu is said to be the easy
> version of Debian, but how does that translate into Koha?

There should be little or no difference.  The main difference between
Debian and Ubuntu administration is that Ubuntu tends to have better
support for desktop GUIs and related software.  Since koha isn't a
dektop GUI application, that difference doesn't really affect it.

The other major difference is that Ubuntu updates software with new
features much, much more frequently than Debian does.  This ties in to
Ubuntu being more desktop-focused, since desktop users tend to want the
"latest and greatest" of their applications.  For servers, though, I
prefer Debian precisely because it isn't constantly making unnecessary
changes to the installed software - for the most part, Debian updates
packages within the stable distribution only for security reasons, and
even then the security fixes are backported when possible, so as to
minimize the resulting changes.

So it really comes down to your preferences.  If you prefer GUI tools to
manage package installation and upgrades, you might want to go with
Ubuntu, otherwise Debian is marginally more stable - but Ubuntu is also
very solid, so you're unlikely to have problems either way.

--
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Re: Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

Michael Kuhn
In reply to this post by King, Fred
Hi Fred

 > As far as Koha administration is concerned, what are the differences
 > between Debian and Ubuntu? I know Ubuntu is said to be the easy
 > version of Debian, but how does that translate into Koha?

As soon as you have Koha installed all right there shouldn't be any
difference that I am aware of. Thus I am backing what Dave Sherohman was
aying in the other e-mail.

What I was referring to are problems during the installation /
configuration process like the following and more that sometimes appear
in this mailinglist. They just don't occur when using Debian:

http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/Koha-on-Ubuntu-18-04-LTS-Bionic-Beaver-td5975633.html

http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/Unable-to-configure-Koha-18-11-on-Ubuntu-16-04-td6020964.html

However, under
https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_ubuntu_-_packages you will
find instructions for a Koha installation on Ubuntu if you prefer this
distribution.

Best wishes: Michael
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Re: Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

Chris Brown
In reply to this post by King, Fred
Hi Fred,

As far as administration of Koha within the web based interface is
concerned, you'll see no difference whether you're running on Ubuntu or
Debian. Even if you're working at a Linux command prompt you're going to
see the same commands. Ubuntu uses Debian as its "upstream" distribution.

As was pointed out (by Michael I think) you might find some minor
differences between installed package versions between Ubuntu and Debian,
and might get a smoother ride installing onto Debian so I would go with
that unless you have some other reason to prefer Ubuntu. (I am too out of
touch with the Ubuntu Server distro these days to know what "added value"
it offers, if any.)

Hope this helps,

Best Regards,

Chris Brown


On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 12:57 PM King, Fred <[hidden email]> wrote:

> As far as Koha administration is concerned, what are the differences
> between Debian and Ubuntu? I know Ubuntu is said to be the easy version of
> Debian, but how does that translate into Koha?
>
> Fred King
> Medical Librarian, MedStar Washington Hospital Center
> [hidden email]
> 202-877-6670
> ORCID 0000-0001-5266-0279
> MedStar Authors Catalog: http://medstarauthors.org
>
> It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both incisive
> and probing when every twelve minutes one is interrupted by twelve dancing
> rabbits singing about toilet paper.
> --Rod Serling
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Koha <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Michael Kuhn
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 4:42 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Koha] Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha
>
>  ** ATTENTION: This email originated from outside the MedStar network. **
> DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe.
>
> Hi Tom
>
>  > Kindly advise me the better option for server space between Debian and
> > Ubuntu for koha  production server.
>
> According to
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wiki.koha-2Dcommunity.org_wiki_Debian-23Debian-5FPackages-5Fon-5FKoha&d=DwIGaQ&c=RvBXVp2Kc-itN3g6r3sN0QK_zL4whPpndVxj8-bJ04M&r=vKh6XwOmjyC51IkP1OfsdjQZoWT2vpi6VZl8El8EPRI&m=1ylcSBHLjSWg5rOt-ZicukRdZZTzcSLYSdlYqgcBrNA&s=zNTRxtNR-yY-7IQJkDRFpNMbPAEDwwyWYajdlOoHEpY&e=
> the following distributions are currently supported:
>
> * Debian 8 (Jessie)
> * Debian 9 (Stretch)
> * Ubuntu 18.04 (Bionic)
>
> Personally, I think I heard or anyway I feel like the developers are
> usually using the newer Debian version (thus Debian 9) which results in a
> smoother installation process. I'm not sure if it's true but it seems to me
> even if Koha can be installed on Ubuntu or even some other Linux
> distributions, it will often need some extra effort to make it work on them.
>
> So if you're not absolutely depending on Ubuntu or any other distribution
> I would always recommend Debian GNU/Linux. Also just because Debian
> GNU/Linux is the base of Ubuntu anyway.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Best wishes: Michael
> --
> Geschäftsführer · Diplombibliothekar BBS, Informatiker eidg. Fachausweis
> Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz T 0041 (0)61
> 261 55 61 · E [hidden email] · W
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.adminkuhn.ch&d=DwIGaQ&c=RvBXVp2Kc-itN3g6r3sN0QK_zL4whPpndVxj8-bJ04M&r=vKh6XwOmjyC51IkP1OfsdjQZoWT2vpi6VZl8El8EPRI&m=1ylcSBHLjSWg5rOt-ZicukRdZZTzcSLYSdlYqgcBrNA&s=60YRV60xSvGNKlYG6WDPuuX3FJZM98MGG-aZFLYWE4k&e=
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> [hidden email]
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> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.katipo.co.nz_mailman_listinfo_koha&d=DwIGaQ&c=RvBXVp2Kc-itN3g6r3sN0QK_zL4whPpndVxj8-bJ04M&r=vKh6XwOmjyC51IkP1OfsdjQZoWT2vpi6VZl8El8EPRI&m=1ylcSBHLjSWg5rOt-ZicukRdZZTzcSLYSdlYqgcBrNA&s=0sQiPMe7xZ9bM1oMfWAnudp6_IJg7rWitqf7sfatbsY&e=
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> MedStar Health is a not-for-profit, integrated healthcare delivery system,
> the largest in Maryland and the Washington, D.C., region. Nationally
> recognized for clinical quality in heart, orthopaedics, cancer and GI.
>
> IMPORTANT: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain information
> that is private, confidential, or protected by attorney-client or other
> privilege. If you received this e-mail in error, please delete it from your
> system without copying it and notify sender by reply e-mail, so that our
> records can be corrected... Thank you.
>
> Help conserve valuable resources - only print this email if necessary.
>
>
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

King, Fred
Thanks to Dave, Michael, and Chris for the information. Right now, the difference for me is that I’m reasonably comfortable with Ubuntu and I’ve never used Debian. One of the things koha-US is working on is Crossing the Linux Barrier, so you’ve given me more to think about. If my talk on “Got a hundred dollars? Get an ILS!” isn’t a complete flop, I’ll post the slides on the Avenging Chicken’s web site.

Fred King
Medical Librarian, MedStar Washington Hospital Center
[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
202-877-6670
ORCID 0000-0001-5266-0279
MedStar Authors Catalog: http://medstarauthors.org

It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is interrupted by twelve dancing rabbits singing about toilet paper.
--Rod Serling

From: Chris Brown <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 8:55 AM
To: King, Fred <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Koha] Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

** ATTENTION: This email originated from outside the MedStar network.
** DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
Hi Fred,

As far as administration of Koha within the web based interface is concerned, you'll see no difference whether you're running on Ubuntu or Debian. Even if you're working at a Linux command prompt you're going to see the same commands. Ubuntu uses Debian as its "upstream" distribution.

As was pointed out (by Michael I think) you might find some minor differences between installed package versions between Ubuntu and Debian, and might get a smoother ride installing onto Debian so I would go with that unless you have some other reason to prefer Ubuntu. (I am too out of touch with the Ubuntu Server distro these days to know what "added value" it offers, if any.)

Hope this helps,

Best Regards,

Chris Brown


On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 12:57 PM King, Fred <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
As far as Koha administration is concerned, what are the differences between Debian and Ubuntu? I know Ubuntu is said to be the easy version of Debian, but how does that translate into Koha?

Fred King
Medical Librarian, MedStar Washington Hospital Center
[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
202-877-6670
ORCID 0000-0001-5266-0279
MedStar Authors Catalog: http://medstarauthors.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__medstarauthors.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=RvBXVp2Kc-itN3g6r3sN0QK_zL4whPpndVxj8-bJ04M&r=vKh6XwOmjyC51IkP1OfsdjQZoWT2vpi6VZl8El8EPRI&m=G7fi4X-WzxKYPnyBYvgw2OcxrH4K08JStQs67qKXBHQ&s=CKK6t-Q_cOdCZxdrQKiTs7s1r--grEI48K2WcfK7KEE&e=>

It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is interrupted by twelve dancing rabbits singing about toilet paper.
--Rod Serling

-----Original Message-----
From: Koha <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> On Behalf Of Michael Kuhn
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 4:42 AM
To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Koha] Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

 ** ATTENTION: This email originated from outside the MedStar network. ** DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

Hi Tom

 > Kindly advise me the better option for server space between Debian and  > Ubuntu for koha  production server.

According to
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wiki.koha-2Dcommunity.org_wiki_Debian-23Debian-5FPackages-5Fon-5FKoha&d=DwIGaQ&c=RvBXVp2Kc-itN3g6r3sN0QK_zL4whPpndVxj8-bJ04M&r=vKh6XwOmjyC51IkP1OfsdjQZoWT2vpi6VZl8El8EPRI&m=1ylcSBHLjSWg5rOt-ZicukRdZZTzcSLYSdlYqgcBrNA&s=zNTRxtNR-yY-7IQJkDRFpNMbPAEDwwyWYajdlOoHEpY&e=  the following distributions are currently supported:

* Debian 8 (Jessie)
* Debian 9 (Stretch)
* Ubuntu 18.04 (Bionic)

Personally, I think I heard or anyway I feel like the developers are usually using the newer Debian version (thus Debian 9) which results in a smoother installation process. I'm not sure if it's true but it seems to me even if Koha can be installed on Ubuntu or even some other Linux distributions, it will often need some extra effort to make it work on them.

So if you're not absolutely depending on Ubuntu or any other distribution I would always recommend Debian GNU/Linux. Also just because Debian GNU/Linux is the base of Ubuntu anyway.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes: Michael
--
Geschäftsführer · Diplombibliothekar BBS, Informatiker eidg. Fachausweis Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> · W https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.adminkuhn.ch&d=DwIGaQ&c=RvBXVp2Kc-itN3g6r3sN0QK_zL4whPpndVxj8-bJ04M&r=vKh6XwOmjyC51IkP1OfsdjQZoWT2vpi6VZl8El8EPRI&m=1ylcSBHLjSWg5rOt-ZicukRdZZTzcSLYSdlYqgcBrNA&s=60YRV60xSvGNKlYG6WDPuuX3FJZM98MGG-aZFLYWE4k&e=
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MedStar Health is a not-for-profit, integrated healthcare delivery system, the largest in Maryland and the Washington, D.C., region. Nationally recognized for clinical quality in heart, orthopaedics, cancer and GI.

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Re: Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

Mark Tompsett
In reply to this post by Dave Sherohman
Greetings,

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 10:42:19AM +0200, Michael Kuhn wrote:
> Personally, I think I heard or anyway I feel like the developers are
> usually using the newer Debian version (thus Debian 9) which results
> in a smoother installation process.

Yes, I believe this is true as well.


From: Dave Sherohman
> Note that Debian 10 (buster) was released on July 6, so stretch is
> no longer the latest stable version.  I would expect buster to
> support koha (using the stretch packages if buster packages are
> not yet available) with no problems,
> but I haven't tried it myself.

While Buster is the latest, I have tried installing Koha on it, and had some
issues. I would recommend sticking with Stretch (Debian 9) or Bionic (Ubuntu
18.04 LTS).

And given that Debian is the preferred Linux Distribution, if you wish to
have a GUI, you can always install that after. The default desktop manager
for Ubuntu 18.04 is gnome which can be installed from Debian's wiki
instructions: https://wiki.debian.org/Gnome

Though, it is strange to install a desktop on your server, because Koha is
access via webclients, which can be on any computer which knows how to reach
your server. The only use case that I could see is a small library with no
budget for multiple computers, and only a single staff person doing all the
check-ins and check-outs.

GPML,
Mark Tompsett

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Re: Debian vs Ubuntu server for koha

King, Fred
(Sorry about the weird formatting--Outlook 365 hates me.)
Mark Tompsett:

Though, it is strange to install a desktop on your server, because Koha is  
access via webclients, which can be on any computer which knows how to reach  
your server. The only use case that I could see is a small library with no  
budget for multiple computers, and only a single staff person doing all the  
check-ins and check-outs.

I've thought about that as part of Crossing the Linux Barrier. Adding a GUI to the Koha server would make copying files and navigating through directories much easier. It would take processor power and RAM, but you could start it and stop it as needed.

I'm trying to think from the perspective of someone on the first day of their job who asks "Who's the sysadmin?" and is told "You are." (That actually happened to me with our previous system.) Getting used to the Ubuntu command line was fairly easy for me because my first home computer ran on DOS 3.3. It's pretty much the same except that the virgules go the other way. However, there aren't as many people like me around these days.

Fred King
Medical Librarian, MedStar Washington Hospital Center
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