Possible IRC tutorial nginx and FastCGI

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Possible IRC tutorial nginx and FastCGI

Brendan Gallagher
Hi All -

Friday evening here (west coast USA), Saturday evening in New Zealand.  Chris Cormack was showing quite a few of the developers that hang out in the IRC #koha channel - his testing database of koha - fed through nginx and FastCGI.

I was absolutely amazed at the speed that pages from the opac were being delivered and watching some of the tests with speed comparisons between apache and nginx. I want to learn more. So, I would like to propose or maybe ask chris - if he would schedule a time that he could demo or even give a tutorial on nginx and FastCGI on the IRC channel (which is a good medium because those who can't make it will be able to read the logs).  I am hoping that others get encouraged and want to investigate the possibilities.

So, If you're interested in this please let me/the list know and I'll bug chris to set up a time to give a tutorial.

Cheers,
Brendan

Of course I'd like to encourage as many people to attend (it's surprising how much I've learned through osmosis)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brendan A. Gallagher
ByWater Solutions
CEO, Director of Innovation
Support and Consulting for Open Source Software
Installation, Data Migration, Training, Customization, Hosting
and Complete Support Packages
Headquarters: Santa Barbara, CA - Office: West Haven, CT
Phone # (888) 900-8944
http://bywatersolutions.com
[hidden email]


See us at ALA : BOOTH # 817
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Re: Possible IRC tutorial nginx and FastCGI

Thomas Krichel

  Brendan Gallagher writes

> Friday evening here (west coast USA), Saturday evening in New
> Zealand.  Chris Cormack was showing quite a few of the developers
> that hang out in the IRC #koha channel - his testing database of
> koha - fed through nginx and FastCGI.

  I could not get it to run with Apache's mod_fcgi

http://lists.koha.org/pipermail/koha-devel/2010-April/011153.html

> I was absolutely amazed at the speed that pages from the opac were
> being delivered and watching some of the tests with speed
> comparisons between apache and nginx. I want to learn more. So, I
> would like to propose or maybe ask chris - if he would schedule a
> time that he could demo or even give a tutorial on nginx and FastCGI
> on the IRC channel (which is a good medium because those who can't
> make it will be able to read the logs).  I am hoping that others get
> encouraged and want to investigate the possibilities.

  Does the speed increase come more from FastCGI or more from
  using nginx instead of Apache? I generally don't like Apache,
  but using a different web server means finding a box where you
  run just that server or convert all servers to the alternative
  servers. Both approaches are costly.

  I could give it a try to get it to run if Chris posts his
  nginx vhost file.

  Cheers,

  Thomas Krichel                    http://openlib.org/home/krichel
                                http://authorclaim.org/profile/pkr1
                                               skype: thomaskrichel
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Re: Possible IRC tutorial nginx and FastCGI

Clay Fouts-3
In reply to this post by Brendan Gallagher
I'm very interested interested in learning more about this, also. How well does it scale? My experience with FastCGI is that it can lend performance improvements, but it's often at considerable cost in terms of memory. Does the FCGI handle all the scripts or only key performance-sensitive ones, like opac-search.pl?

Clay


On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Brendan Gallagher <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi All -

Friday evening here (west coast USA), Saturday evening in New Zealand.  Chris Cormack was showing quite a few of the developers that hang out in the IRC #koha channel - his testing database of koha - fed through nginx and FastCGI.

I was absolutely amazed at the speed that pages from the opac were being delivered and watching some of the tests with speed comparisons between apache and nginx. I want to learn more. So, I would like to propose or maybe ask chris - if he would schedule a time that he could demo or even give a tutorial on nginx and FastCGI on the IRC channel (which is a good medium because those who can't make it will be able to read the logs).  I am hoping that others get encouraged and want to investigate the possibilities.

So, If you're interested in this please let me/the list know and I'll bug chris to set up a time to give a tutorial.

Cheers,
Brendan

Of course I'd like to encourage as many people to attend (it's surprising how much I've learned through osmosis)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brendan A. Gallagher
ByWater Solutions
CEO, Director of Innovation
Support and Consulting for Open Source Software
Installation, Data Migration, Training, Customization, Hosting
and Complete Support Packages
Headquarters: Santa Barbara, CA - Office: West Haven, CT
Phone # (888) 900-8944
http://bywatersolutions.com
[hidden email]


See us at ALA : BOOTH # 817
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Possible IRC tutorial nginx and FastCGI

Chris Cormack-6
Hi all
Quick reply as im on the bus.
Clay i stress tested with 100 concurrent requests, stepping up in 10s
after, apache2 + cgi started swapping hard load got up to 124 before i
killed the test. in 252 seconds got 11 200 responses.
with nginx which has virtually zero memory footprint + the FCGI::Async
based wrapper the same test topped at 1.2 load.
I can show you the stats on irc if you like.
So far i am handling all gets with it posts go to apache. I think the
login page is one of the few posts so handing that to apache2-ssl is
no bad thing

We use nginx at work for big dynamic sites (millions of page
impressions per day) Im happy to share what ive learnt.

Chris

On 04/05/2010, Fouts, Clay <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm very interested interested in learning more about this, also. How well
> does it scale? My experience with FastCGI is that it can lend performance
> improvements, but it's often at considerable cost in terms of memory. Does
> the FCGI handle all the scripts or only key performance-sensitive ones, like
> opac-search.pl?
>
> Clay
>
>
> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Brendan Gallagher <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi All -
>>
>> Friday evening here (west coast USA), Saturday evening in New Zealand.
>>  Chris Cormack was showing quite a few of the developers that hang out in
>> the IRC #koha channel - his testing database of koha - fed through nginx
>> and
>> FastCGI.
>>
>> I was absolutely amazed at the speed that pages from the opac were being
>> delivered and watching some of the tests with speed comparisons between
>> apache and nginx. I want to learn more. So, I would like to propose or
>> maybe
>> ask chris - if he would schedule a time that he could demo or even give a
>> tutorial on nginx and FastCGI on the IRC channel (which is a good medium
>> because those who can't make it will be able to read the logs).  I am
>> hoping
>> that others get encouraged and want to investigate the possibilities.
>>
>> So, If you're interested in this please let me/the list know and I'll bug
>> chris to set up a time to give a tutorial.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Brendan
>>
>> Of course I'd like to encourage as many people to attend (it's surprising
>> how much I've learned through osmosis)
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Brendan A. Gallagher
>> ByWater Solutions
>> CEO, Director of Innovation
>> Support and Consulting for Open Source Software
>> Installation, Data Migration, Training, Customization, Hosting
>> and Complete Support Packages
>> Headquarters: Santa Barbara, CA - Office: West Haven, CT
>> Phone # (888) 900-8944
>> http://bywatersolutions.com
>> [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> See us at ALA : BOOTH # 817
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Koha-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
>>
>
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Re: Possible IRC tutorial nginx and FastCGI

Reed Wade
In reply to this post by Thomas Krichel
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 7:07 AM, Thomas Krichel <[hidden email]> wrote:


>  Does the speed increase come more from FastCGI or more from
>  using nginx instead of Apache? I generally don't like Apache,
>  but using a different web server means finding a box where you
>  run just that server or convert all servers to the alternative
>  servers. Both approaches are costly.


I work with Chris on the large nginx using project he referred to. One
thing he maybe didn't mention is that it plays very nicely alongside
and/or in front of apache.

We use them both with easy requests handled by nginx. It forwards more
complex ones (about 6% of requests in our case) up to apache. Our
application is a very high performance news web site -- so we can tell
you that it is a fast running configuration though it might not sound
it.

Whether a dual layer setup makes sense for production Koha -- I don't
know, Chris could say.

A dual layer config would be easy to set up so you could just let
nginx handle certain requests - or none if it was making trouble.

I can also tell you that the more I work with nginx the more I like
it. Not sure why, I just do.

-reed
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Re: Possible IRC tutorial nginx and FastCGI

Clay Fouts-3
In reply to this post by Chris Cormack-6
Thanks for the further info. Sorry for the imprecision, but here I meant "scale" in the sense of individual Koha installations per web server rather than hits per installation. My concern is the feasibility of implementing a scheme like this on a web server which is configured to service requests for over a hundred individual Koha instances. Doesn't each individual script require it's own FastCGI daemon process per instance of Koha? Of course it would be possible to implement this on a subset of those sites, but then each step of de-homogenizing adds another cost at a different level.

Clay


On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Chris Cormack <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all
Quick reply as im on the bus.
Clay i stress tested with 100 concurrent requests, stepping up in 10s
after, apache2 + cgi started swapping hard load got up to 124 before i
killed the test. in 252 seconds got 11 200 responses.
with nginx which has virtually zero memory footprint + the FCGI::Async
based wrapper the same test topped at 1.2 load.
I can show you the stats on irc if you like.
So far i am handling all gets with it posts go to apache. I think the
login page is one of the few posts so handing that to apache2-ssl is
no bad thing

We use nginx at work for big dynamic sites (millions of page
impressions per day) Im happy to share what ive learnt.

Chris

On 04/05/2010, Fouts, Clay <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm very interested interested in learning more about this, also. How well
> does it scale? My experience with FastCGI is that it can lend performance
> improvements, but it's often at considerable cost in terms of memory. Does
> the FCGI handle all the scripts or only key performance-sensitive ones, like
> opac-search.pl?
>
> Clay
>
>
> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Brendan Gallagher <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi All -
>>
>> Friday evening here (west coast USA), Saturday evening in New Zealand.
>>  Chris Cormack was showing quite a few of the developers that hang out in
>> the IRC #koha channel - his testing database of koha - fed through nginx
>> and
>> FastCGI.
>>
>> I was absolutely amazed at the speed that pages from the opac were being
>> delivered and watching some of the tests with speed comparisons between
>> apache and nginx. I want to learn more. So, I would like to propose or
>> maybe
>> ask chris - if he would schedule a time that he could demo or even give a
>> tutorial on nginx and FastCGI on the IRC channel (which is a good medium
>> because those who can't make it will be able to read the logs).  I am
>> hoping
>> that others get encouraged and want to investigate the possibilities.
>>
>> So, If you're interested in this please let me/the list know and I'll bug
>> chris to set up a time to give a tutorial.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Brendan
>>
>> Of course I'd like to encourage as many people to attend (it's surprising
>> how much I've learned through osmosis)
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Brendan A. Gallagher
>> ByWater Solutions
>> CEO, Director of Innovation
>> Support and Consulting for Open Source Software
>> Installation, Data Migration, Training, Customization, Hosting
>> and Complete Support Packages
>> Headquarters: Santa Barbara, CA - Office: West Haven, CT
>> Phone # (888) 900-8944
>> http://bywatersolutions.com
>> [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> See us at ALA : BOOTH # 817
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Koha-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel
>>
>


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Re: Possible IRC tutorial nginx and FastCGI

Chris Cormack-6
On 4 May 2010 09:30, Fouts, Clay <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks for the further info. Sorry for the imprecision, but here I meant
> "scale" in the sense of individual Koha installations per web server rather
> than hits per installation. My concern is the feasibility of implementing a
> scheme like this on a web server which is configured to service requests for
> over a hundred individual Koha instances. Doesn't each individual script
> require it's own FastCGI daemon process per instance of Koha? Of course it
> would be possible to implement this on a subset of those sites, but then
> each step of de-homogenizing adds another cost at a different level.
> Clay
>
No, each script doesn't need its own fastcgi daemon.
You may want one daemon per site .. but even that isnt actually
nessecary as you can set the env variables for KOHA_CONF and PERL5LIB
in the same way as you do in apache2 (or close to it).
These are passed onto the fastcgi daemon, which in turn runs the
actual script and hands back the result. To the CGI scripts .. they
don't even notice the difference.
By using FCGI::Async you don't wait for the request to finish before
starting another also.
With nginx understanding multiple backends you can have a pool of the
daemons running if you like.

Chris
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Re: Possible IRC tutorial nginx and FastCGI

Colin Campbell-5
I heard that PSGI on nginx is very fast. I was impressed by a
presentation on PSGI/Plack by its author, but haven't really played with
it since. Has anyone any experience of it?
Colin

--
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PTFS Europe Limited
Content Management and Library Solutions
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Re: Possible IRC tutorial nginx and FastCGI

Chris Cormack-6
On 4 May 2010 19:47, Colin Campbell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I heard that PSGI on nginx is very fast. I was impressed by a
> presentation on PSGI/Plack by its author, but haven't really played with
> it since. Has anyone any experience of it?
> Colin
>
Hi Colin

Not in any production environment I haven't. But I will certainly try
it out, and run some benchmarks and see how it performs compared to
FCGI::Async.

Chris
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Re: Possible IRC tutorial nginx and FastCGI

Chris Cormack-6
On 4 May 2010 19:58, Chris Cormack <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 4 May 2010 19:47, Colin Campbell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I heard that PSGI on nginx is very fast. I was impressed by a
>> presentation on PSGI/Plack by its author, but haven't really played with
>> it since. Has anyone any experience of it?
>> Colin
>>
Really unscientific test, but fairly promising

running
 plackup -MPlack::App::CGIBin -e 'Plack::App::CGIBin->new(root =>
"/home/chris/git/koha.git/opac")->to_app'

With nginx in front, to proxy requests and handle serving the js and css.

Hitting it with curl-loader from a machine across town



On 4 May 2010 19:58, Chris Cormack <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 4 May 2010 19:47, Colin Campbell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I heard that PSGI on nginx is very fast. I was impressed by a
>> presentation on PSGI/Plack by its author, but haven't really played with
>> it since. Has anyone any experience of it?
>> Colin
>>
Really unscientific test, but fairly promising

running
 plackup -MPlack::App::CGIBin -e 'Plack::App::CGIBin->new(root =>
"/home/chris/git/koha.git/opac")->to_app'

With nginx in front, to proxy requests and handle serving the js and css.

Hitting it with curl-loader from a machine across town

Test total duration was 55 seconds and CAPS average 37:
H/F   Req:1100,1xx:0,2xx:1100,3xx:0,4xx:0,5xx:0,Err:0,T-Err:0,D:8502ms,D-2xx:8502ms,Ti:136200B/s,To:3194B/s
H/F/S Req:0,1xx:0,2xx:0,3xx:0,4xx:0,5xx:0,Err:0,T-Err:0,D:0ms,D-2xx:0ms,Ti:0B/s,To:0B/s

Which seems well worth investigating more.

Chris
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Re: Possible IRC tutorial nginx and FastCGI

Brendan Gallagher
Ok my interested is peaked.

Any body want to propose times dates methods?  I think a discussion in IRC would be the best.

So, I think the ball is in your court Chris.  I'd say pick a time that is good for you and if anyone misses then they can read about it in the logs and follow up on the list with more questions.

Thanks,
Brendan

Looking forward to this.


On May 4, 2010, at 2:52 AM, Chris Cormack wrote:

> On 4 May 2010 19:58, Chris Cormack <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 4 May 2010 19:47, Colin Campbell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I heard that PSGI on nginx is very fast. I was impressed by a
>>> presentation on PSGI/Plack by its author, but haven't really played with
>>> it since. Has anyone any experience of it?
>>> Colin
>>>
> Really unscientific test, but fairly promising
>
> running
> plackup -MPlack::App::CGIBin -e 'Plack::App::CGIBin->new(root =>
> "/home/chris/git/koha.git/opac")->to_app'
>
> With nginx in front, to proxy requests and handle serving the js and css.
>
> Hitting it with curl-loader from a machine across town
>
>
>
> On 4 May 2010 19:58, Chris Cormack <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 4 May 2010 19:47, Colin Campbell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I heard that PSGI on nginx is very fast. I was impressed by a
>>> presentation on PSGI/Plack by its author, but haven't really played with
>>> it since. Has anyone any experience of it?
>>> Colin
>>>
> Really unscientific test, but fairly promising
>
> running
> plackup -MPlack::App::CGIBin -e 'Plack::App::CGIBin->new(root =>
> "/home/chris/git/koha.git/opac")->to_app'
>
> With nginx in front, to proxy requests and handle serving the js and css.
>
> Hitting it with curl-loader from a machine across town
>
> Test total duration was 55 seconds and CAPS average 37:
> H/F   Req:1100,1xx:0,2xx:1100,3xx:0,4xx:0,5xx:0,Err:0,T-Err:0,D:8502ms,D-2xx:8502ms,Ti:136200B/s,To:3194B/s
> H/F/S Req:0,1xx:0,2xx:0,3xx:0,4xx:0,5xx:0,Err:0,T-Err:0,D:0ms,D-2xx:0ms,Ti:0B/s,To:0B/s
>
> Which seems well worth investigating more.
>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Koha-devel mailing list
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Re: Possible IRC tutorial nginx and FastCGI

LAURENT Henri-Damien-2
Le 07/05/2010 05:38, Brendan Gallagher a écrit :
> Ok my interested is peaked.
>
> Any body want to propose times dates methods?  I think a discussion in IRC would be the best.
>
> So, I think the ball is in your court Chris.  I'd say pick a time that is good for you and if anyone misses then they can read about it in the logs and follow up on the list with more questions.
>
> Thanks,
> Brendan

We also did some really interesting and promising tests with dancer
which is an HTTP framework over Plack.
We will keep you informed of all aspects improved and all that it implies.
But it is really good in terms or performances and load on machines.

--
Henri-Damien LAURENT
BibLibre


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