PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

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PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

John Yokley

As you know, PTFS acquired LibLime and is integrating the LibLime operation into our existing open source software business unit.  With this acquisition, PTFS inherited quite a few tasks, all to be performed simultaneously, and our work is not near complete.  However, we want to increase our involvement within the community now, at this early phase of the transition. 

As promised, PTFS will continue to support the Koha open source community.  We understand that the http://koha-community.org/ website was set up as a temporary measure before our purchase of LibLime, out of concerns that the content of koha.org was out of date and was not under the control of official members of the community.  To resolve this issue PTFS would like help in updating and supporting koha.org.  

To that end, we email to solicit community volunteers to support and update portions of the koha.org web site in a collaborative fashion similar to how it worked about a year ago.  We understand that people in the elected Koha roles had editing rights to the following areas on the site:

  1. Documentation
  2. Downloads
  3. Release Manager and Maintainer
  4. Translation Manager
  5. etc.


If the current or former persons in these or other roles are interested in taking over these website responsibilities again, and returning to a collaborative model for support of the koha.org site, please contact Kelly Sherman at [hidden email]


In addition, PTFS is happy to remain the host of the git repository and have already set up a ‘new_features’ branch for the next version with permissions to push granted to Chris Cormack.

PTFS looks forward to continuing our work with the community to mutually advance the goal of producing the world’s best open source ILS system that can truly go head-to-head with the legacy proprietary systems.

Best Regards

 

John Yokley
P | T | F | S 
Content Management and Library Solutions 
6400 Goldsboro Road Suite 200
Bethesda, MD 20817
(301) 654-8088, ext. #111
FAX: 301-654-5789
Cell: 240-447-8970
[hidden email]
www.ptfs.com

 


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Re: PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

Jane Wagner
2010/4/23 John Yokley <[hidden email]>
If the current or former persons in these or other roles are interested in taking over these website responsibilities again, and returning to a collaborative model for support of the koha.org site, please contact Kelly Sherman at [hidden email]


As a followup, the email server is not completely configured yet; please use the email address of [hidden email] instead.

--
Jane Wagner
Library Systems Analyst
PTFS Inc.
Content Management and Library Solutions
6400 Goldsboro Road, Suite 200
Bethesda, MD  20817
(301) 654-8088 x 151
[hidden email]


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Re: PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

Owen Leonard-4
In reply to this post by John Yokley
Should we interpret your message to mean that PTFS does not intend to  
turn over the koha.org domain to the community?

  -- Owen

--
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Nelsonville Public Library
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Re: PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

Koustubha Kale


On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 6:22 AM, Owen Leonard <[hidden email]> wrote:
Should we interpret your message to mean that PTFS does not intend to
turn over the koha.org domain to the community?

 -- Owen


Yes that's how it should be. Entire domain, not parts. Else we risk repeating the whole story somewhere down the line.

Till that time I vote for continuing koha-community.org and all subdomains like git.koha-community.org and bugs.koha-community.org


Regards,
Koustubha Kale
Anant Corporation

Contact Details :
Address  : 103, Armaan Residency, R. W Sawant Road, Nr. Golden Dyes Naka, Thane (w),
        Maharashtra, India, Pin : 400601.
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Mobile     : +919820715876
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Blog : http://www.anantcorp.com/blog/?author=2
 

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Re: PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

nengard
In reply to this post by John Yokley
John,

Thank you so much for communicating with us all!!

I just wanted to reply to let you know that I think you might have a
misunderstood the purpose of koha-community.org.  This site was not
set up as a temporary site, but as the new official Koha site.  Our
reason for doing this was that as an open source community we wanted
an open website where anyone can sign up and add/edit content.

Since koha-community.org is open to anyone, you and Kelly and anyone
can sign up and start adding content to it today.  Much effort has
been put in the new site to provide all the things that community want
in a website and we did not have any plans on abandoning it. What
would make the most sense would be for koha.org to be redirected to
koha-community.org.

We look forward to your content on the koha-community.org website.

Thanks again,
Nicole C. Engard
Koha Documentation Manager

2010/4/23 John Yokley <[hidden email]>:

> As you know, PTFS acquired LibLime and is integrating the LibLime operation
> into our existing open source software business unit.  With this
> acquisition, PTFS inherited quite a few tasks, all to be performed
> simultaneously, and our work is not near complete.  However, we want to
> increase our involvement within the community now, at this early phase of
> the transition.
>
> As promised, PTFS will continue to support the Koha open source community.
> We understand that the http://koha-community.org/ website was set up as a
> temporary measure before our purchase of LibLime, out of concerns that the
> content of koha.org was out of date and was not under the control of
> official members of the community.  To resolve this issue PTFS would like
> help in updating and supporting koha.org.
>
> To that end, we email to solicit community volunteers to support and update
> portions of the koha.org web site in a collaborative fashion similar to how
> it worked about a year ago.  We understand that people in the elected Koha
> roles had editing rights to the following areas on the site:
>
> Documentation
> Downloads
> Release Manager and Maintainer
> Translation Manager
> etc.
>
> If the current or former persons in these or other roles are interested in
> taking over these website responsibilities again, and returning to a
> collaborative model for support of the koha.org site, please contact Kelly
> Sherman at [hidden email].
>
> In addition, PTFS is happy to remain the host of the git repository and have
> already set up a ‘new_features’ branch for the next version with permissions
> to push granted to Chris Cormack.
>
> PTFS looks forward to continuing our work with the community to mutually
> advance the goal of producing the world’s best open source ILS system that
> can truly go head-to-head with the legacy proprietary systems.
>
> Best Regards
>
>
>
> John Yokley
> P | T | F | S
> Content Management and Library Solutions
> 6400 Goldsboro Road Suite 200
> Bethesda, MD 20817
> (301) 654-8088, ext. #111
> FAX: 301-654-5789
> Cell: 240-447-8970
> [hidden email]
> www.ptfs.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
>
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Re: PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

Indranil Das Gupta
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Nicole Engard <[hidden email]> wrote:

[snipped]

Since koha-community.org is open to anyone, you and Kelly and anyone
can sign up and start adding content to it today.  Much effort has
been put in the new site to provide all the things that community want
in a website and we did not have any plans on abandoning it. What
would make the most sense would be for koha.org to be redirected to
koha-community.org.

We look forward to your content on the koha-community.org website.

+1


--
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Re: PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

MJ Ray-2
In reply to this post by John Yokley
John Yokley wrote:
> As promised, PTFS will continue to support the Koha open source community.
> We understand that the http://koha-community.org/ website was set up as a
> temporary measure before our purchase of LibLime, out of concerns that the
> content of koha.org was out of date and was not under the control of
> official members of the community.  To resolve this issue PTFS would like
> help in updating and supporting koha.org. *

Too little too late.

Community members have decided to make koha-community.org the
long-term home, started changing links and so on.  I beg PTFS to do
the right thing now: redirect *.koha.org to *.koha-community.org
immediately (continuing to host bits if the community agrees) and
transfer the domain to HLT as a long-term resolution.

It is incredible to ask, after that painful decision, for everyone to
reverse it and then also start working directly for PTFS for free!

I feel we should not risk losing control of the domain again in the
future while PTFS is being bought by someone else.  Only the unbuyable
common sector (trusts, foundations, community companies, some
cooperatives and similar) can offer long-term stability for Koha.

Furthermore, I think how koha.org worked "about a year ago" was
already after most of the long-time webmasters like me and Russel had
been booted out and - despite the best efforts of some good workers
who still had access - the site was already starting to rot.

Koha has a better user-generated site now, thanks to all those who
have contributed, which we should cherish and keep improving.

Regards,
--
MJ Ray (slef)  Webmaster and LMS developer at     | software
www.software.coop http://mjr.towers.org.uk        |  .... co
IMO only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html |  .... op
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Re: PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

Christopher Nighswonger
In reply to this post by John Yokley
Hi John,

It is good to hear from you.

> As you know, PTFS acquired LibLime and is integrating the LibLime operation into our existing open source software business unit.  With this acquisition, PTFS inherited quite a few tasks, all to be performed simultaneously, and our work is not near complete.  However, we want to increase our involvement within the community now, at this early phase of the transition.
>

We all appreciate the incredibly complex task of merging two
companies. No doubt this task is greatly complicated by PTFS being
fairly new to the FOSS concept as well.

> As promised, PTFS will continue to support the Koha open source community.  We understand that the http://koha-community.org/ website was set up as a temporary measure before our purchase of LibLime, out of concerns that the content of koha.org was out of date and was not under the control of official members of the community.  To resolve this issue PTFS would like help in updating and supporting koha.org.

The time for updating and supporting koha.org as an independent site
is past. There is nothing else to be said in that regard. One of the
very issues that PTFS appears to be concerned about is at stake here:
instability in governance. Make no mistake. There is no instability
here. To move "back" to koha.org would indeed be a sign of instability
and indecision on the community's part. We have learned a hard and
sorrowful lesson in the trust betrayed by LibLime and its former
management. Surely you understand the need of ensuring that never
again can a single for-profit interest threaten the existence of Koha.

The clearest and best indication that PTFS is willing and desirous to
participate in the Koha community on the common ground of the term set
forth by the community would be to turn all Koha related assets over
to the community appointed trustee HLT. You would be surprised what a
grateful response this would receive from the community *as well as*
many of the former LibLime customers.

> PTFS looks forward to continuing our work with the community to mutually advance the goal of producing the world’s best open source ILS system that can truly go head-to-head with the legacy proprietary systems.

PTFS has a wonderful opportunity at this point in its own history and
that of Koha. Furthermore, PTFS stands a good chance of wide
acceptance in the Koha community if it chooses to enter the community
on the terms common to all who come this way: those set forth by the
community.

To my knowledge, no one has shunned, belittled, ostracized, or
otherwise discriminated (to use a currently politically hot term)
against either of the two PTFS developers who regularly frequent the
list and irc channel. To the contrary, many of us have invested our
*valuable* time FREE OF CHARGE to assist them in issue directly
related to PTFS client work. To this degree and further, PTFS has
received invaluable benefit from this community. In return we are only
asking that PTFS be honorable and transparent in its dealings with the
community. Let's leave the smoke and mirrors to the politicians.

I am personally looking forward to greater involvement of PTFS in the
Koha community. I have enjoyed interaction with the two PTFS employees
who are currently involved and appreciate their valuable contributions
to the community as well.

Kind Regards,
Chris Nighswonger
Koha 3.2 Release Maintainer
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Re: PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

Chris Cormack-6
Hi All

I have been asked offlist by PTFS to respond to this email, so here goes.

I agree with what the others before me have said.
http://koha-community.org is the preferred option until the koha.org
domain is placed in trust for the community with community designated
organisation, Horowhenua Library Trust, holding it.

Liz at NEKLS has done a fantastic job of setting the site up, it is
open, collaborative and is fast becoming an invaluable resource for
the community. Even were the koha.org domain returned to community
control, my vote would be to point it at the koha-community.org site.

So that's my position on the issue.

Chris
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Re: PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

Joann Ransom-2
Hi all,

Yes I have been asked as well, and my response remains exactly as it was
when I answered Kelly's original post last week:

" I wonder if a better, more collegial approach, might be to redirect
koha.org to the community site: koha-community.org."

I do believe this to be a better approach than going to head to head
with the Koha global community by resurrecting the old site in
competition with the new koha-community.org site which is working
splendidly and which is available to the entire community in terms of
adding and editing content.

Cheers Jo.

PS For the record, in case anyone is wondering, the  HLT Koha Committee
has written twice inviting PTFS to discuss the Koha community assets
including koha.org and have yet to be acknowledged by PTFS.



Chris Cormack wrote:

> Hi All
>
> I have been asked offlist by PTFS to respond to this email, so here goes.
>
> I agree with what the others before me have said.
> http://koha-community.org is the preferred option until the koha.org
> domain is placed in trust for the community with community designated
> organisation, Horowhenua Library Trust, holding it.
>
> Liz at NEKLS has done a fantastic job of setting the site up, it is
> open, collaborative and is fast becoming an invaluable resource for
> the community. Even were the koha.org domain returned to community
> control, my vote would be to point it at the koha-community.org site.
>
> So that's my position on the issue.
>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>  

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Re: PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

Joann Ransom-2
In reply to this post by Chris Cormack-6
Hi all,

Yes I have been asked as well, and my response remains exactly as it was
when I answered Kelly's original post last week:

" I wonder if a better, more collegial approach, might be to redirect
koha.org to the community site: koha-community.org."

I do believe this to be a better approach than going to head to head
with the Koha global community by resurrecting the old site in
competition with the new koha-community.org site which is working
splendidly and which is available to the entire community in terms of
adding and editing content.

Cheers Jo.

PS For the record, in case anyone is wondering, the  HLT Koha Committee
has written twice inviting PTFS to discuss the Koha community assets
including koha.org and have yet to be acknowledged by PTFS.

Chris Cormack wrote:

> Hi All
>
> I have been asked offlist by PTFS to respond to this email, so here goes.
>
> I agree with what the others before me have said.
> http://koha-community.org is the preferred option until the koha.org
> domain is placed in trust for the community with community designated
> organisation, Horowhenua Library Trust, holding it.
>
> Liz at NEKLS has done a fantastic job of setting the site up, it is
> open, collaborative and is fast becoming an invaluable resource for
> the community. Even were the koha.org domain returned to community
> control, my vote would be to point it at the koha-community.org site.
>
> So that's my position on the issue.
>
> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>  

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Re: PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

paul POULAIN-3
In reply to this post by Chris Cormack-6
Le 26/04/2010 04:56, Chris Cormack a écrit :
> Hi All
>
> I have been asked offlist by PTFS to respond to this email, so here goes.
>  
Same for me, so same for me :

I fully agree with what other said. Sometimes I would write it with
different words, but the idea is here : the wordpress koha-community.org
is easy to use, community & not-for-profit driven, so it's where the
"koha community" must go. Please give control over koha.org to HLT, and
that will solve the debate.

PS : Chris Nighswonger: wonderfull mail !

--
Paul POULAIN
http://www.biblibre.com
Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc
Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08

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Re: PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

Galen Charlton-3
In reply to this post by Chris Cormack-6
Hi,

On Apr 25, 2010, at 10:56 PM, Chris Cormack wrote:
> I have been asked offlist by PTFS to respond to this email, so here goes.

Likewise.

> I agree with what the others before me have said.
> http://koha-community.org is the preferred option until the koha.org
> domain is placed in trust for the community with community designated
> organisation, Horowhenua Library Trust, holding it.
>
> Liz at NEKLS has done a fantastic job of setting the site up, it is
> open, collaborative and is fast becoming an invaluable resource for
> the community. Even were the koha.org domain returned to community
> control, my vote would be to point it at the koha-community.org site.

That is my position as well.  koha-community.org and its various sub-sites represent a number of positive developments.  The new website has gone well past the point where it is merely a reaction to LibLime's prior management of koha.org.  The positive changes include:

[1] With the assumption of oversight of the koha-community.org domain by the Horowhenua Library Trust, establishing the principle that Koha project assets can and are best held in trust by a non-profit organization and one that is directly answerable to a library.
 
[2] Establishing a new content management system for the new website, and, more importantly, setting up the website so that anybody in the world with Koha content to add to it can easily and quickly get an account.  I join Chris in thanking Liz Rea, NEKLS, and Kansas Libraries on the Web for doing a wonderful job setting it up.

[3] Establishing ways for Koha contributors, commercial firms and nonprofits alike, to each contribute by providing services for part of the web and email infrastructure of koha.org.  This has a number of benefits to the community, including the ability to set up redundant mirrors and inherent fault tolerance (if a particular sub-site's ISP has issues, that won't bring all of koha-community.org down).  Along the same lines, if an entity for whatever reason no longer wishes to maintain part of the website, the task can be readily transferred to another host.  This also has an important symbolic value: it shows that mutual cooperation can achieve great things for the Koha project.  It also ensures that no one vendor can lay claim the the Koha project - and to be frank, the Koha community is not likely to ever permit that to happen.  

[4] Re-establishing the principle that system administration of Koha websites be done by any and all qualified Koha community members who have time and a desire to help.

What does this mean for PTFS?  I invite you to join the collaboration.  While I join with the rest of the HLT Koha Subcommittee in urging you to point koha.org to koha-community.org and transfer the domain to the HLT, PTFS can still keep its hand in things in several ways:

* By requesting and receiving editing access to the koha-community.org website.
* By continuing to host one or more of the extant sub-sites, provided that this is done in a way as to allow other interested community members to participate in maintaining the services.

This is an unparalleled opportunity for PTFS and the Koha community.  If you agree to join with us in an open, transparent discussion of the issues and to commit to cooperating with the global Koha community, we can collectively resolve historical issues and get back to work on producing great software for libraries and their patrons.  Furthermore, I can guarantee that if PTFS joins with the Koha community, your firm will enjoy a tremendous amount of goodwill, one that will translate quite directly to dollars and cents and which will help ease the process of folding LibLime into your operations.

Regards,

Galen
--
Galen Charlton
VP, Data Services
Equinox Software, Inc. / Your Library's Guide to Open Source
email:  [hidden email]
direct: +1 352-215-7548
skype:  gmcharlt
web:    http://www.esilibrary.com/

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Re: PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

Greg Barniskis-2
Galen Charlton (and others) have suggested that PTFS simply:
> point koha.org to koha-community.org

While I agree that this would be a welcome gesture of faith in the
community, it should be noted that there is still important content on
koha.org that is not yet available on koha-community.org (namely the 3.0
manual, and I am not sure what else). It would be nice if that sort of
thing were resolved before any wildcard redirection of the domain name
was implemented.

--
Greg Barniskis, Computer Systems Integrator
South Central Library System (SCLS)
<gregb at scls.lib.wi.us>, (608) 242-4716
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Re: PTFS Koha Community Support and the Koha.org Website

Owen Leonard-4
On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Greg Barniskis <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Galen Charlton (and others) have suggested that PTFS simply:
>> point koha.org to koha-community.org
>
> While I agree that this would be a welcome gesture of faith in the
> community, it should be noted that there is still important content on
> koha.org that is not yet available on koha-community.org (namely the 3.0
> manual, and I am not sure what else).

The contents of the 3.0 manual are not on koha-community.org because
the copyright to that content is held by LibLime (and now PTFS). PTFS
would need to release the 3.0 manual under some kind of open license
in order for us to be able to reproduce it.

  -- Owen

--
Web Developer
Athens County Public Libraries
http://www.myacpl.org
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