[Bug 25643] New: Remove maxreserves syspref

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[Bug 25643] New: Remove maxreserves syspref

bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

            Bug ID: 25643
           Summary: Remove maxreserves syspref
 Change sponsored?: ---
           Product: Koha
           Version: master
          Hardware: All
                OS: All
            Status: NEW
          Severity: enhancement
          Priority: P5 - low
         Component: Hold requests
          Assignee: [hidden email]
          Reporter: [hidden email]
        QA Contact: [hidden email]
                CC: [hidden email]

Unless someone can explain to me how it's not redundant, I think we should
remove the maxreserves system preference. The maximum amount of holds
(regardless of patron category and can be set in Circulation and fines rules >
Default checkout, hold and return policy > Maximum total holds allowed (count).

For upgrades, if there is a value in maxreserves, it should be transferred to
circulation_rules > max_holds. Not sure what it should do if there is already a
value in max_holds... take the biggest? give a warning in the about page?

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[Bug 25643] Remove maxreserves syspref

bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[hidden email]-c
                   |                            |ommunity.org,
                   |                            |[hidden email],
                   |                            |[hidden email],
                   |                            |[hidden email]

--- Comment #1 from Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]> ---
Kyle, Nick, Katrin, do you see any reasons to keep this syspref instead of
using the "Maximum total holds allowed (count)" of the default circ rule?

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[Bug 25643] Remove maxreserves syspref

bugzilla-daemon
In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
         Depends on|                            |4045


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4045
[Bug 4045] No check for maximum number of allowed holds from OPAC.
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[Bug 25643] Remove maxreserves syspref

bugzilla-daemon
In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

Nick Clemens <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           See Also|                            |https://bugs.koha-community
                   |                            |.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi
                   |                            |?id=24868

--- Comment #2 from Nick Clemens <[hidden email]> ---
(In reply to Jonathan Druart from comment #1)
> Kyle, Nick, Katrin, do you see any reasons to keep this syspref instead of
> using the "Maximum total holds allowed (count)" of the default circ rule?

I don't think it means the same thing under all circumstances, at least not
currently

See bug 24868.

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[Bug 25643] Remove maxreserves syspref

bugzilla-daemon
In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

--- Comment #3 from Katrin Fischer <[hidden email]> ---
The maxreserves is an 'over all libraries' rule. The default on all libraries
is (I think) just a fall back if there is no rule for a specific library.

At least it should be.

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[Bug 25643] Remove maxreserves syspref

bugzilla-daemon
In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

--- Comment #4 from Katrin Fischer <[hidden email]> ---
I've seen some discussion currently on several bugs and I think that things are
confusing at the moment.

The page is labelled: Defining circulation and fine rules for all libraries

But that's not actually what it states below and how it does work. A rule that
you set there will only apply, if there is no other more specific rule for the
library. It's a 'default' (fallback) not an 'all libraries' page.

And I feel the fix is to change the labelling (and I also believe that in old
versions it was labelled differently). And maybe have real global settings
somewhere else, not necessarily in the system preferences.

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[Bug 25643] Remove maxreserves syspref

bugzilla-daemon
In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

--- Comment #5 from Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]> ---
So far the maxreserves syspref is only used in the controllers, it is not used
in the "canbereserved*" subroutines. That means there is an obvious issue in
the code.

My proposition is to:
1. Remove maxreserves
2. And instead use:
 * max_holds from "Default checkout, hold and return policy" as maxreserves.
Either for "default" (all libraries), or per library.
 * or max_holds from "Default checkout, hold policy by patron category" if
defined (default or library specific).

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[Bug 25643] Remove maxreserves syspref

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In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

--- Comment #6 from Katrin Fischer <[hidden email]> ---
I believe it's not the same thing and we should really discuss how to interpet
default vs. all libraries - I believe we cannot have both and should not mix
them. There needs to be a clear definition to move forward and we should avoid
changing behaviour unintentionally for libraries.

Say you have 3 libraries.
As they all have the same circulation conditions you only enter rules under
"Default (all libraries)". Max holds is set to 5.

maxreserves is set to 10.

What I believe happens is that you can have only up to 10 holds (capped by
maxreserves), but a max of 5 for each of the libraries.

If we remove maxreserves, we either remove the ability to inherit or remove the
global capping.

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[Bug 25643] Remove maxreserves syspref

bugzilla-daemon
In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

Andrew Fuerste-Henry <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[hidden email]

--- Comment #7 from Andrew Fuerste-Henry <[hidden email]> ---
(In reply to Katrin Fischer from comment #6)

> I believe it's not the same thing and we should really discuss how to
> interpet default vs. all libraries - I believe we cannot have both and
> should not mix them. There needs to be a clear definition to move forward
> and we should avoid changing behaviour unintentionally for libraries.
>
> Say you have 3 libraries.
> As they all have the same circulation conditions you only enter rules under
> "Default (all libraries)". Max holds is set to 5.
>
> maxreserves is set to 10.
>
> What I believe happens is that you can have only up to 10 holds (capped by
> maxreserves), but a max of 5 for each of the libraries.
>
> If we remove maxreserves, we either remove the ability to inherit or remove
> the global capping.

+1 to all of this. Katrin's example scenario correctly describes the current
behavior (based on what they've got ReservesControl set to). There's nothing in
the circ rules that can accomplish exactly what MaxReserves does and I hate to
remove that functionality, even though it is confusing.

For what it's worth, I get libraries asking for more functionality along the
lines of what MaxReserves does -- they want to be able to set global limits
irrespective of library and define things like "Patrons in Category A can have
a total of 50 holds across all branches." As Koha stands now, that sort of rule
may or may not be possible based on ReservesControl and other rules.

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[Bug 25643] Remove maxreserves syspref

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

--- Comment #8 from Katrin Fischer <[hidden email]> ---
I agree that it would be nice and improve transparency if the 'maxreserves' was
not hiding in system preferences. It would be nice if we had something like a
different configuration area for this visible under circulation rules somehow.

I'd also suggest getting rid of the 'all libraries' terminology in favor of
something else. I believe we had some iterations of phrasing there already, but
the current one does seem more confusing than ever.

Maybe something like:
Default rules
Default fallback rules (for libraries)

?

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[Bug 25643] Remove maxreserves syspref

bugzilla-daemon
In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

--- Comment #9 from Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]> ---
What about moving the maxreserves pref under a "global" section of the circ
rules page?
It would be displayed only if no library is selected.

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[Bug 25643] Remove maxreserves syspref

bugzilla-daemon
In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

--- Comment #10 from Andrew Fuerste-Henry <[hidden email]> ---
I like moving this into circ rules somewhere rather than leaving in sysprefs.
But that compounds both the naming issue that Katrin's raising *and* the
control branch issue that Nick's raising. We don't exactly have a place in circ
rules right now in which to define that sort of global rules, we only have
default rules. Even if those defaults are our *only* rules, they'll still be
enforced for each library individually.

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[Bug 25643] Remove maxreserves syspref

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In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           See Also|                            |https://bugs.koha-community
                   |                            |.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi
                   |                            |?id=25662

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[Bug 25643] Remove maxreserves syspref

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In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |In Discussion

--- Comment #11 from Jonathan Druart <[hidden email]> ---
If there is a discussion (maybe on the ML?) and we found a consensus, I am
willing to implement it.

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[Bug 25643] Move maxreserves functionality into circulation rules

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In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

Katrin Fischer <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Summary|Remove maxreserves syspref  |Move maxreserves
                   |                            |functionality into
                   |                            |circulation rules

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[Bug 25643] Move maxreserves functionality into circulation rules

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In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

Katrin Fischer <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           See Also|                            |https://bugs.koha-community
                   |                            |.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi
                   |                            |?id=25688

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[Bug 25643] Move maxreserves functionality into circulation rules

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https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

--- Comment #12 from Katrin Fischer <[hidden email]> ---
I think a new page would probably be best. Don't mix up things on the first
page - it's already confusing.

Funnily, when adding bug 25688 for the terminology issue, I found another
really old bug about this problem:

Bug 8371 - Add global level issuing rules (number of checkouts over all
libraries, etc.)

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[Bug 25643] Move maxreserves functionality into circulation rules

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In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25643

Katrin Fischer <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           See Also|                            |https://bugs.koha-community
                   |                            |.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi
                   |                            |?id=8371

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